105 - Jordan Morris | Demon Hunters, Comic Books, Mega Churches, and 90s Nostalgia

[00:00:00] This is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit Dauntless.etham for more content. I tribute to the students and other faculty who survived Evangelical Higher Education. They faced ridiculous racism, sexism, anti-LGPTQ hatred and all manner of bigotry.

[00:00:43] From the heartless evils of the prosperity gospel to the destructive pseudo-phiology of purity culture, the stories will break your heart, but they will also inspire. These people faced bigotry and spotback in a weird kind of sick way

[00:00:59] We went through some stupid, but we formed identities and we formed communities through it all. I hope you will join us. All right. Okay. Welcome to The Thereafter Podcast, a place where we explore life on the other side of faith change.

[00:01:19] We're here to break down the binaries, deconstruct the dualities and wander through what it looks like to live in the gray. In church, we were told that life after leaving would be a better wasteland of unfulfilling hedonism. We've discovered quite the opposite.

[00:01:36] There's actually a vibrant community of people on the other side of faith, we're finding and co-creating space for hope and healing. Come along as we explore the all-too-often uncharted experience of Evangelicalism evolving faith in the life of your aftering. All right. All right.

[00:02:08] What is that your new catchphrase? No, I don't have one. That's why every time we start I freeze and don't know what to say. Hello. I'm just trying to help me. I know that like welcome back to another episode that they're after podcasts.

[00:02:26] I'm just trying to be creative. I should do a Twitter poll and like a bracketed contest to like pick a catchphrase for Megan. Yeah, that was great. That was great. It's the missions and then we could do like make a bracket and like have a whole tournament.

[00:02:41] There you go. That sounds like a really great way to spend our time. I love stuff like dude, I so like I have we've just put out our episode late today.

[00:02:53] We're recording now for our episode that when you hear this it will have been out and whenever we get it out. Like we're like both pretty busy but like I do find myself doing the other day.

[00:03:07] I was just having a conversation with a friend and it led to the term slutty and sweatpants and she was like, That's a great podcast name and I was like, you should start that podcast.

[00:03:17] I'm going to make you podcast art right now and I spent like an hour making her podcast art and setting her up. A podcast Spotify for podcasts, just a count and writing it and I'm like why am I building?

[00:03:28] Like I don't even know if she wants to do it but I like bought the domain name and I was like so if you see if it comes out. I'll definitely talk about other shows letting sweatpants no one steal it. Sounds like you.

[00:03:40] Yeah, yeah, I mean I have something like it's still like obviously like take the idea. But it will never be as good as anything that I probably will never do. Yeah, why I put my energy into things like that? Who knows, they're fun.

[00:03:57] Well speaking of Oliver Energy, what's been happening on the internet? I think we're moving away from Twitter but just this week only and talking about Instagram for a minute. Yeah. Do a quick grams lap. Did you just come up with that on the fly?

[00:04:13] Yes, came up with it. Nice. All right. Yeah, I've been it's a great transition because I definitely spent way too much of my energy in the comment section of the new event jellicles. Instagram real the other day.

[00:04:29] Yeah, if people didn't see it, Tim from New Evangelicals interviewed Erica Smith who goes by Erica Smith's sex ed and has been doing sex education for what like over 20 years and has a degree in this.

[00:04:44] This is something we we had around the podcast. You can listen to her interview from last season, but she was part of content warning and Tim showed a clip of it and he chose the kick he claims and he says this openly.

[00:04:57] He chose the clip because it was a little bit of a clickbait like hey, it was about porn and the comment section just exploded. Do you want to explain what the clip was?

[00:05:08] Yeah, yeah. I mean this is a long form our plus long conversation on YouTube that Tim and Erica had and this clip was obviously of real of his 20 seconds max maybe.

[00:05:23] And so like regardless of like you know people were like oh it was intentionally clickbaity and like probably to some extent but like that's what a real is like it is hard to have nuanced context.

[00:05:37] In something a format where you are literally limited, you cannot make a real longer than I think like a hundred and eighty seconds or something.

[00:05:47] And so yeah, the clip was I think the main thing that was said in it that people really honed in on is there is no scientific evidence that porn changes your brain was like kind of the hot button clickbaity phrase

[00:06:06] that Erica said in the clip and Tim in the clip also says you know I was always told that like you know looking at porn is like doing cocaine.

[00:06:16] You got to brought up these talking points that are regularly used by anti porn anti sex work proponents to compare porn and porn consumption and sex work to hard drugs to drug addiction. And I think that she kind of also you know disputed this idea of porn addiction.

[00:06:44] But even in the clip gave credence to the fact that like we can have lots of compulsive behaviors and like anything can become compulsive and like an addiction to some extent but like the DSM right like the defined diagnosis.

[00:07:01] The community that defines diagnosis is it has not defined porn addiction as a diagnosable you know she's not wrong it's not in the DSM not that like the DSM doesn't change all the time and it's like the Bible.

[00:07:17] But the way that people lost their minds in this comment section like I said it kept to me very busy and I was scrolling and reading and replying and. For way longer than I probably should.

[00:07:34] Well and I think one thing that it was super evident people that weren't familiar with her work were like who who is she and what what's her credibility and and she herself came into the comments to say that's a really valid question.

[00:07:48] And this is who I am and these this is the experience that I have because we do get people on the internet that become a quote unquote sex educator or sex coach or life coach that don't have any experience other than they've maybe had sex with their.

[00:08:05] And so I have a lot of experiences that are not a part of the story or you know like it just really the I feel like there have been some people I remember seeing a TikTok if somebody who.

[00:08:15] She was like a purity culture coach and she was like 22 and had been married for like a year and didn't had had only sex with her partner which hey that's great for her but also I felt like.

[00:08:27] Like she needs a little bit more life ahead of her before she's coaching other people and also asking very person should I remember on her website chat a survey about like.

[00:08:38] All these really intimate personal things and it was like do you have the qualifications to accept this this information from people and and and be secure with that information and so yes that's a valid question to ask.

[00:08:52] You're not familiar with Erica Smith and you're you know healing from purity culture go to her website because she's fucking incredible.

[00:09:00] Yeah, and I mean there was people like well if you're going to talk about the brain you should you know bring on a neuroscientist you know but then like in the same breath would be like but the science is is is.

[00:09:13] And it's a undefutable that porn is bad for your brain and I'm like you just like asked for us to bring on a neuroscientist talk about this and then like claimed knowledge of undisputable scientific fact. You know social media post you know like it's giving.

[00:09:29] I'm not paying attention to what I'm saying. Yeah, and it's it's wild also she sites all the research she didn't say it in that 22nd clip but if you watch the entire interview she refers to people she sites the research.

[00:09:42] She has evidence it's not like she's just making she just showed up one day and just decided to say hey I just in going to think this and it's.

[00:09:51] I think we need to be looking at what are the what are the sources that all these people are saying they're pulling from because. Is it the common denominator of focus on the family or. I mean that that's where I have questions.

[00:10:10] Yeah, well and I think that to like obviously there is a lot to be said about where this data and where people are getting information from about the. I think that there are some risks or harmful possible harmful effects of consuming pornography. Like.

[00:10:36] There's a conversation about about all that that should be had but then there's also a conversation about like this idea of like how triggered and like activated people were. By a conversation about. I think that's where we're going to be. And that's where we're going to be.

[00:11:03] The whole thing was in the outporn and they covered a bunch of different topics in this interview. But. Tim and his follow up.

[00:11:14] Post on Instagram was you know kind of like processing in real time like, you know they I think they lost a lot of followers over this thing. And so I think that's where the chat ends with a lot of T and e content.

[00:11:24] I'm always surprised at the more conservative counts that do follow him and engage with his work. So, but like, if we if we can make a comparison to like alcohol.

[00:11:38] We don't we don't like if Tim Tim was a part of theology beer camp okay not to bring up all other thing. We have we have events where there's alcohol some somebody might say my life was destroyed.

[00:11:51] My marriage was destroyed by alcohol how dare you talk about having a beer but the reality is is like like just because something a substance a behavior like like. May have had harmful impact on your life does not mean that.

[00:12:09] We just like don't talk about that and we don't care about how workers in the alcohol industry are being treated. We don't care about like the ethics of how alcohol industry is is run or if there's some major.

[00:12:23] Uh, misinformation about the alcohol industry like we would still have those conversations drugs is another like thing like maybe your life was ravaged by drug addiction.

[00:12:33] And so, you know, your family members was I I totally understand as somebody with family members with drug and alcohol addictions and and I've seen the harmful effects but like we still need to have conversations about.

[00:12:48] Access to clean needles and testing like ability to test drugs and the way in which the war on drugs and policies around drugs have been harmful for.

[00:13:00] And for marginalized like like you can't just say like oh we just it's funny that with porn or with adult entertainment with sex work. We just say like know the whole thing.

[00:13:13] Cannot be talked about is evil is bad is is harmful rather than going like sure like aspects of like like. Like we have stories of people being abused in their lives being ruined by youth ministries but we don't just go like all youth ministry all you know.

[00:13:34] Fire all teachers fire all youth pastors we don't react that way except when it comes to porn. And it's curious to me that people are not reflective enough to see that to see that like.

[00:13:48] They are they are playing into this extreme moral panic over a topic and trying to claim that because they had a personal harmful or detrimental experience with it that that moral panic is justified.

[00:14:05] And not being critical of the fact that there is most likely people in power who really benefit from you buying into this moral panic. And demonizing this entire industry and it may be as keeping you from actually seeing somewhere where we should be looking in paying attention.

[00:14:27] Yeah and that's that's exactly what I was going to say it's the demonization that piece that you just said at the end and even Erica herself in those comments was saying this hey this conversation is really nuanced she's not saying that everybody has a healthy relationship with porn.

[00:14:41] And also not saying that it's never been destructive but she's again having this nuanced conversation with him about ethical ethical porn and ethics around it and and. Bunking some of the myths about porn that needed for have needed to be deformed.

[00:14:58] And so it is it is a nuanced conversation but it, it just like you're saying it can't be all or nothing because that's not what we're at. And with these things, it's especially common within alt-right conspiracy world to use things like human trafficking, pedophilia, sex trafficking.

[00:15:27] These topics are moral panic triggers that those on the alt-right have used to rally people around organizing for things that are not helpful for people. So it's not to frame it in some sort of a binary as if I am not, there's an organization

[00:15:55] called Fight The New Drug that was referenced a lot in this comment section founded by a more men woman by the way, but anyway it is a secular big air quotes organization providing secular data about porn and its harmful effects. There's an organization called Exodus Cry.

[00:16:16] These are again organizations that are touted as reliable sources of information about pornography and it's effects and sex work. But I feel like for people to not realize that there is possibly some ulterior motive to framing these conversations the way these organizations do, and to just follow without

[00:16:47] critically thinking about these things. And people who, I'm just going to name, I think from all my experience with Kristen Howardton, like I remember hearing her on Kevin Garcia's podcast. I've read several blogs from her.

[00:17:01] I don't know what her position on several things are but to see her two long comments in that comment section. You need to take this video down. You should take this whole interview down, calling for that, citing, fight the new drug. It was wild to me.

[00:17:17] I was like this is not a person. I would expect to be so bought in to something that I think we can all admit has definitely some ulterior motive. These organizations have like our created to eliminate pornography, to eliminate the

[00:17:40] industry of porn of all porn and I just don't feel like I don't smoke cigarettes but I'm not, I don't think cigarettes are great. But I'm looking to shut down the tobacco industry and I would be very skeptical of anyone

[00:17:54] who was fighting that battle in that way because... Well I think it goes, I think it's back to like just the inability to hold space for the gray area, right? Because I think everybody wants clear black and white answers. Everybody wants a binary.

[00:18:17] And I think for a lot of people and people in this space as people are navigating life and ethics, I mean this is the whole reason we did content warning because these conversations are in the shadows. These conversations are being pushed to the outskirts or not talked about.

[00:18:32] So we were at events that were never bringing up porn or masturbation or non-monogamy or any of these things that are sex work, any of these things that are quote-unquote taboo topics, whether you're a fundamentalist, whether you're conservative, or whether you're progressive, or liberal.

[00:18:49] Like they just weren't being talked about. And so we're just trying to get those conversations out in the open because it's like there isn't necessarily one clear pathway or solution. They're conversations, they're dialogue and that's...

[00:19:02] I mean to be honest, that's what I miss about what Twitter has become. I feel like there's not a lot of dialogue anymore. It's just like a tack, a tack, a tack and it's made me...

[00:19:15] Starting those conversations and I've seen people even that we've shared space with at some of these events have just kind of taken on that fundamentalism on this side of things that really just makes me... I don't know, it makes me lose a little hope.

[00:19:35] I don't know, I hate to be Blake, but that's where I'm at sometimes. Yeah, I mean, it is frustrating when you see... I mean, I'm fending, you know, who's pretty sure I was been a guest on the podcast,

[00:19:53] and I'm gonna leave that episode to go back and listen to that. Evil things on Twitter and like... She's even, like, she is a... high-risk, long-covid person who lives with disabilities and is very... you know, promasking and careful.

[00:20:13] And even I've seen her be attacked on Twitter for, you know, perpetuating anti-maskers or not blocking the right people or not unfollowing or being some sort of like... COVID-dynyer and I'm like, this is the farthest person from that ever.

[00:20:32] But like because, you know, there's some sort of extreme thing that happens around a, you know, 120 characters on Twitter, we just stop again, having these conversations. And that comment section again was just a lot of people who really decided...

[00:20:50] obviously a long time ago for whatever reason that I don't need to know any more other than porn is adult entertainment, whatever it is bad. It is destructive, it's harmful, it is... and it is scientifically decided. Done, deal, decided, it's bad, it's evil, hurts everyone that, you know,

[00:21:16] and once you have made up your mind like that about that thing, how do you have any conversations? How do you even... Have any conversation or nuanced or otherwise about it? I agree, I absolutely agree.

[00:21:32] And as we're talking about demonization of things, I think that's a really good segue into the interview that we have with an amazing guest that I'm really excited about this and the serendipitous moment that led us having him on the podcast.

[00:21:45] Yeah, I'm really excited about this one, it was an incredible conversation and I don't want to give anything away. You guys just buckle up, get ready for a treat, and get ready to, you know, hit

[00:21:57] put that pre-order button wherever you pre-order things because you're going to want to after you this. That was a percent let's dive into it. All right, another episode of The There After Podcast with a guest today, Megan intro our

[00:22:15] illustrious guest. Yeah, we have Jordan with us today who wrote a book about us and I'm just so flattered that we are the star starting characters of his new book coming out.

[00:22:26] No, I'm just kidding, I'll let you Jordan, just say hello but we did meet you through Twitter because you do have a book coming out with characters with our names. So yeah, we would love to just

[00:22:37] get a little bit of background and kind of your story and especially because this book is about youth leaders and so just you know as I went through and read it, I got the sense that

[00:22:50] you probably had a taste of evangelical 90s youth group culture. So we would love to just kind of hear a bit of your context and kind of what you grew up kind of faith situation or whatever

[00:23:02] context that was. Yeah, hi, good to be here, help happy to be here in my context as y'all's official official biographer. I just want to tell your story, I just want to help you tell your story.

[00:23:15] No, so yeah my book that you mentioned it is a graphic novel, it is called Youth Group. It is out July 16th. You can pre-order it now the artist by a great artist named Bowen McGurty.

[00:23:26] And yeah, let's say it's a spooky YA horror comedy about teenage actresses who are in a goofy youth group in the 90s. Yeah and two of the main characters are Megan and Portland.

[00:23:42] Yeah, and that's hence hence and now here we are. Yeah, so yeah I did grow up going to a goofy Bible study in the 90s. We did you know we did it all, we did lock-ins, we did it was

[00:23:59] it was you know Orange County in the 90s. So a lot of Christian punk and ska shows. It was it was all that stuff and yeah it's always just been a weird little world that I thought was funny

[00:24:12] and I thought was very like emotionally loaded and I always kind of thought it would make for a good setting for a story and you know I was kind of headed in the back of my head like you

[00:24:22] see the youth groups in media and they're always like a little broad they never quite get it what it's really funny about them or at least they don't get it what I thought was funny about them.

[00:24:34] And yeah so I'm always like I think I could write about this in an authentic kind of way that maybe gets some of the nuance right so I always wanted to do it and then I kind of had the

[00:24:45] had the notion to like add a little horror element. I like genre stuff, I like it when genre stuff matches up with comedy so you have the idea to make them to make them exercise popped up and yeah

[00:24:58] and here we are now the books coming out. Yeah it's super funny it's really good there's a lot of little Easter eggs for somebody like me who also grew up in that culture. I think the story is funny

[00:25:13] and compelling even if you didn't yeah like that's the context but I think especially if you had that context you're gonna like read it be like oh my god that's a thing that I relate to

[00:25:24] or that's the thing that I noticed which for me was yeah if you were a youth group kid hopefully there's some like familiar cringe in there that you could enjoy but yeah I think if you just like

[00:25:34] a funny story about demon fighters with a little friendship and a little romance then hopefully it'll be fun for you too. Yeah I'm curious too because this is not your first book so like what has

[00:25:47] that kind of process been like for you just kind of as a creator as an artist like is that something that you've been doing for a while did you kind of stumble into it and we'd love to hear a

[00:25:58] little bit about that. Sure yeah I've done all kinds of writing in my career I've been lucky in that way I've done some TV and I've done like sketch comedy an improv and podcasts and

[00:26:11] and a bunch of little bits and bobs here and there but you know I was the comics kid I was a comics kid growing up and loved Spidey in the X-Men and Mad Magazine and Archie and all that stuff and

[00:26:23] always you know had a little dream of doing it myself but I could never draw so I kind of thought maybe comics were unavailable to me or a little world that I can never be a part of. So yeah

[00:26:34] it always kind of just sat there in the pile of dreams that we'll probably never come true and so yeah I had been like kind of working in LA and TV and stuff for 10 years or so

[00:26:51] and always kind of had these little comics pitches in my you know in my notes app and stuff like that and yeah so so the first book that I did was bubble it is an adaptation of a scripted podcast

[00:27:04] we did for a maximum fund.org it's kind of a funny sci-fi thing about a dome bubble city where a bunch of hipsters live and they have to kill monsters as part of a nightmare version of the

[00:27:16] gig economy and yeah so that was a scripted podcast we did for Max Fun and the editor over it for a second where we did bubble and where we did a youth group is Callista Brill and so she got

[00:27:28] in touch and said hey I think this podcast might make a good comic book my good graphic novel and I was like oh god yes yes so I was so excited so that was how that door got opened and yeah

[00:27:40] I did that book with a great writer named Sarah Morgan who also worked on the podcast and a wonderful wonderful artist named Tony Cliff who did a beautiful job and yeah I love how bubble turned

[00:27:50] out we got nominated for two eyes ners they want me to say that I guess I'll say it yeah and so then you know just through doing that book I now had the kind of contacts and stuff for comics so I

[00:28:02] pitched for a second youth group and they and they bit and here we are cool all right so before I have a bunch of questions on a Megan it does as well before we get it all that my my question is

[00:28:14] where did you get the characters names from because growing up as a courtland I knew one other courtland as a kid and I was like constantly that kid at like the like kiosk or like the

[00:28:31] souvenir counter like with the names and I'm like okay they got Cody and they got Tom and Tommy Portland was never and never I never gonna keychain board my future aim on it so it's cool

[00:28:43] to see my name in print like it's cool to be like oh they were we're out there we're representation for the courtlands there you go happy to happy to help you with that dream where did where did it come from

[00:28:54] you over friend did you know somebody yeah so yeah that's it it's a it's a friend of mine's brother it's a guy I grew up so the the the book is like you know despite being kind of supernatural and having

[00:29:06] all these demon fights and stuff it is like pretty pretty out of biographical I did like use a lot of details from my childhood in it and I just like thought about people I grew up with and there was

[00:29:17] one of the guys I went to youth group with was Andrew and he had a little brother Portland and it struck me as a very like it's said in Orange County right it's said in Orange County California and

[00:29:26] Portland just struck me as a very like so cow name you know he served warvans just a chill dude named Portland it's like I don't know I just kind of it kind of fit for me is like the character and

[00:29:39] the character is this kind of like stony chill guy who got roped into the youth group and I think he's not sure how much of it he believes and I think he's a little bit of a skeptic but

[00:29:55] like the community and also like wants to kill demons so he's he's a part of the youth group and he's kind of not sure how he fits into it so yeah just I just thought Portland was a good name

[00:30:07] and and and Megan so Megan is is like the youth leader and she's the true believer like she's the one who's like yes I'm here we're doing it uh W.W.J.D. like that's her and yeah and she's kind of

[00:30:23] peppy in a little bit of a cheerleader type a little bit of a um a little bit of a Tracy flick a little bit of a um a little bit of an L Woods so yeah I just I there's a there's a friend of mine

[00:30:36] I went to college with Megan who like was a cheerleader in high school loves pink and I'm like oh this this kind of fits so yeah that's that's where the names come came from they were pretty like random

[00:30:47] polls and yeah the fact that it lines up with y'all is as cool and spooky yeah it was super fun I made the reading experience for me personally even more enjoyable um and super relatable so

[00:31:03] so so how did y'all so the book is not out yet as of this recording how did y'all hear about it like who told you about it and how had they how how did they know about the book?

[00:31:13] It was it was someone on Twitter I for me it was it was Liz I don't know her last name um I think her head was like the lovelyest Liz and she was like oh my god did you see this

[00:31:25] and I didn't click into it any farther other than just like I saw the title and I was like that looks cool a shit like I'm like I want to read it and then she's like can you believe the names

[00:31:36] and then I was like what then that I clicked down into the description and it was like whoa this is cool okay again I don't see my name everywhere so it caught my attention well and also we weren't sure

[00:31:48] like I wasn't sure at first like is this like a a Christian graphic like you like I wanted to make sure because and even like while I was reading and because of the nature of the conversations

[00:32:01] that we have I'm kind of looking for like what do you believe you know like what are your thoughts you know and and like are you advocating for you, Krippin but I and we can get to that because

[00:32:13] I loved so I loved it like I just had especially and I don't want to like I don't know how much you want to get into like spoilers because um but I do want to I just want to ask um what made

[00:32:25] you decide to have it set in the 90s because that just brought it all home for me because I was like I grew up in the 90s to like you know I was born in 81 and so I was in high graduated high school in 99

[00:32:37] so that was like you have like references to jars of clay and rent and I'm like okay this is my I've got that there's a wreck joke in there yes they're totally I know big part of my high school experience was rent

[00:32:49] also also a drama kid um so yeah so that's so the original pitch did not have it set in the 90s it was set in modern times people had cell phones people texted blah blah blah so yeah I the

[00:33:04] Callista Brill the editor I mentioned over it for a second that was her pitch she was like I like this why don't you set it in the 90s and I think like she she thought that that was a good idea for a couple

[00:33:16] reasons I want it's just like it's fun right like the the clothes the goofy music it's just a period piece is fun and and so I think she was trying to just she thought that would be kind of cool

[00:33:28] but also I think kind of what she had gained into is that like this this is a pretty personal project for me um like I typically am not a very personal writer like I do like you know you do TV

[00:33:44] writing for somebody else a show and you're not trying to like inject your childhood into it like sometimes you use stuff from your life and because you write something there's going to be a little bit of you in

[00:33:52] it no matter what but the writing I did wasn't autobiographical like I'm you know I'm not a stand up I don't like use my life for stand up like I do podcasting and that's pretty surface level

[00:34:06] goofball buck around type stuff so me using my personal life for creativity is just it's not something that I do a lot um and I think that she saw that I was using a lot of personal specifics in this

[00:34:23] and you know using a setting that I knew very well and so I think she saw that I was that this was a little bit different than the other stuff I had done and different from bubble so yeah I

[00:34:37] think she was kind of saying like follow that thread like like let's let's it's already pretty personal let's just like let's go there and I love that she did that I think it was like such a

[00:34:51] cool decision for the book and I'm so glad she like made that suggestion uh suggestion slash demand who knows but um it wasn't making it in the 90s or we're not doing the book I thought

[00:35:03] it was a good idea so I said yes but um yeah I I just I just love that that's how we did it I think it turned out so cool and like it is a little bit like nerve-racking having something

[00:35:16] so personal coming out like you know I don't think you'll read it and go like oh that's the guy who wrote it there's not like a self-insert character I don't think and like there's nobody named

[00:35:28] Jordan who you know has currently hair but like yeah I don't know it is a little bit weird having having something come out that is but feels so so yeah so specific to me um I don't know I

[00:35:45] I don't I think casual readers probably won't won't key into that but for me it feels very raw yeah so so I'm kind of curious about the like kind of like community culture and like the

[00:36:02] online community around like graphic novels like around you know like I was telling me again like before we hit record like like I'm just kind of like maybe on the surface barely aware of like

[00:36:15] some book culture like popular book you know uh obviously there's like huge community and huge online you know things around that in terms of you know being now as your second graphic novel

[00:36:28] being becoming you know kind of something in this space what has been your experience of the kind of graphic novel to people who are reading these books who who you're connecting with the

[00:36:41] room you know hearing for people who have read your work or who are picking it up um no that's kind of a broad question but I just would love like kind of a window into that no I think comics people

[00:36:55] have been really really cool and they've been really cool to like welcome me into their world relatively late in my career um yeah I I just love it I mean I think that like you you hear about like

[00:37:08] toxic comic prose right like that exists there that guy exists he's mad about the marbles for some reason uh he writes so you know that the m the m she you bother to him uh so yeah like

[00:37:25] that dude exists but like I think the people who would pick up a book like this and like bubble are smart readers who like genre stuff and something fun about writing comics is that like you don't

[00:37:40] have to explain genre stuff like writing TV like if you're pitching a TV show if you're pitching a sci-fi TV show you're gonna get so many fucking nitpicky questions from producer development types like how do they breathe where does the food come from how far away is the

[00:38:02] planet from earth and my feeling about that stuff is who fucking cares like I I've seen Star Wars I've seen Star Trek this is a story like that they're in space I don't know how far away it is

[00:38:17] from earth why do you want to know that will be boring in the story if they're talking about how far away it is from earth and how the water gets purified I know some people like that kind of

[00:38:28] sci-fi with that granular stuff and they want to see diagrams of the ship I don't I would like I like adventures I like creatures I like I like fabulous world building I don't know and so like

[00:38:45] I think that people who are reading graphic novels read graphic novels if that makes any sense they're like yeah cool I yeah I I know what the multiverse is I know I've read stories about

[00:38:58] a bubble city I've ingested media where there's exercises let's go let's see how these characters deal with that so I like I like comics because they assume a kind of baseline knowledge with other

[00:39:11] genre pop culture and you can you you're and you know once you're once you're free from like explaining how the water gets purified you can dig into the characters and you can make

[00:39:24] jokes and you can have moments that are just about the characters you can like have the characters just exist with each other for a while and I think that's the stuff that I like

[00:39:36] and it is not explaining water purifiers but I think that if you are doing this kind of story for a more mass market medium people get really locked into where does the food come from

[00:39:49] Yeah I love this and as somebody who fell on the wrong side of comic bro Twitter once by making a really bad marvel versus a DC take I totally feel that because people were like she should not even accept anymore

[00:40:06] because this is such a bad thing it's just a funny because people do feel very strong about their comics but now I'm also a casual fan and I love that and but I also like I okay and I don't want

[00:40:19] to go I like I love the direction we're going but I also have a quite a couple of questions just because the way you framed and I just don't want to get totally in a different direction which

[00:40:29] this might go and that's fine but the way that you framed like having the youth group be the setting yeah there's it goes a little bit further than that because there are some things you slip in there

[00:40:40] that kind of address probably what I'm imagining things that you either wrestled with in youth group or wrestled with now about that time because like you talk about like the girl that's going

[00:40:54] there is kind of like hey as long as people can be queer or as long as you know like as long as I still have rights kind of and I'm like okay you're starting to put a couple things in here

[00:41:05] that are kind of expressing like you know there's there's some things in there's a little bit attention in this setting too when it comes to and even like some of the things around you know having different organizations with different beliefs come together those kind of things I'm like

[00:41:24] oh these are like expressing some real things and real real struggles that people and evangelicalism have and people in other face have and I'm just curious like how intentional where

[00:41:35] you were thinking through like okay what are some of the things that I want to slip in when I'm when I'm creating this this world and these people because there was some I think thought

[00:41:44] and it does yeah it was I thought a lot about it and I think that like you know this is something safe to say on this show religious people can have some bad takes and can do some shitty things

[00:41:58] and like I wanted to acknowledge it but I didn't want the story to become about that right like I didn't want the characters to be religious villains I wanted them to be kind of like

[00:42:08] well meaning people who want to do the right thing but also might have some growing and learning to do right and so I don't know it was tough I think if if you read this book and you have the

[00:42:23] criticism this guy let's shitty people shitty religious people off too easily I think that that's a pretty valid criticism and I would like gladly hear that but I don't know I just I just I didn't

[00:42:37] I wanted to address it but not make it the whole story because I think you could do a whole story in this world about a kid like our main character Kay like she doesn't believe it she didn't want

[00:42:50] it's nothing to do with it but our moms making her go this was a kid in every youth group they were a little smoke spooky they smoked clothes cigarettes they they were there they were in

[00:42:59] every room and they couldn't fucking wait to go home so I wanted that to be the main character and I think you could do a whole story about that kind of character wrestling with the like bad takes of

[00:43:09] religion and it would you that they's probably a good story and someone should tell that but yeah I was like well I like I kind of don't want this to be about that so I wanted them to address it but not

[00:43:23] but not let it hijack everything and I think we did a pretty good job I like how that stuff is handled but also you know I think if you're reading this looking for something that's like a more like

[00:43:37] critical take down it's not that and I think you you know I think that reader might might wish that the story had had sharper teeth but it's just we were we were we were trying

[00:43:50] for something different okay but and I just want to say one more thing and then Corlan I know you have a question but I just I do want to interject because I was waiting and and I'm somebody

[00:44:02] and you know I've been through different iterations and the deconstruction process where I've been like angry and hating everything and then like there's other times where I'm like oh I'm more appreciative of

[00:44:12] spirituality so I'm like waiting for a moment while I was reading your book to be like activated about a take that you had or like like use it like thinking that you're letting people off too easy but I

[00:44:24] didn't feel that with your book at all I felt like there were moments where you're expecting the you know religious characters to respond in a specific way and you're kind of surprised that

[00:44:38] they are like oh maybe we should ask questions about that belief we had you know and I'm like okay there it is like this is so and I and I actually liked that it was not the focus of the story because

[00:44:50] then it didn't dig in to like the toxicity that I've you know like it's just I can keep it like I can I can not dig into like trauma adjacent topics you know and so it was it was like I

[00:45:03] really felt that throughout and I and that wasn't really a question I just wanted to respond but go ahead and courtland with your question yeah yeah and I'll I'll echo that there was these points

[00:45:14] I like even with the mom of the main character at one point in saying like do you think it's dorky that I believe in God or do you think it's like stupid or silly or something to that

[00:45:23] effect and I remember that being for me like kind of like because I also have friends who come to me just recently I had a friend who came to me who like grew up in the face with me decumverted

[00:45:34] and is now like re converting or whatever he's on a journey like it's like you know we all were just yeah and he was like he was like I get that yes yeah and he was like embarrassed about it

[00:45:45] I'm like dude that's cool whatever like that's you believe in whatever makes you fucking feel happy and fulfilled and whatever and so I think there's space for that but my my question slash comment is like how much pressure do you feel in comedy not just necessarily in

[00:46:05] this writing but it feels like the bubble was like had some social commentary to it right you're talking about gig economy you're talking about like this also has some social commentary it's not the point you're not writing this like with a very pointed specific social commentary you're making

[00:46:22] but how do you personally feel with your relationship with writing and with comedy in terms of the importance value and need for social comedy to be commentary. Yeah I like I don't

[00:46:37] want to nor do I think that I can change anybody's mind on anything right like I you know I don't I don't work for John Oliver Lord knows I've sent him a couple of packets but

[00:46:50] you know not hired on that show for a reason so yeah I I don't think that I can or am obligated to change anybody's mind on anything but I do think that like I like writing

[00:47:04] that clearly exists in the real world right like I like writing that's not like purely riffing on tropes I think you read some horror stuff or you read some sci-fi stuff and it's like well this

[00:47:18] the only thing this is thinking about is start wars right like you read a sci-fi thing and you're like oh this person just wanted to write a star wars or no one would let them so they changed some of the

[00:47:25] names and it's not like about the world and so yeah I just I personally really like John Ristuff that's like rooted in something it's like it's looking around it's thinking about stuff

[00:47:42] yeah like you know the the book is very buffy we're like you know nobody's nobody's saying it ain't and you know buffy was such a great version of that right like you know when we all know

[00:47:56] Josh we didn't kind of a crummy guy but a lot of people worked to make that show so good and yeah like part of that was like yeah it's this vampire fighting story but it's also about growing up

[00:48:06] it's also about what it means to be a teenager it's also right it's like what it means to find a family and so yeah I just I like that stuff I like it when you can tell that people making

[00:48:19] something or kind of like looking around and they're commenting on stuff and that they're using using the real world and they're not just using other media if that makes sense yeah yeah no it absolutely does and like like every gay millennial listening right now it's like

[00:48:37] buffy yeah like like like I mean like it's kidding you know so so I'm curious because and you know if this isn't something that you talk about on podcast that absolutely just say that but when you were talking about like just how this is a personal and raw

[00:48:57] story was it like I'm just curious like what part of it was because I mean it sounds like you're like you know do I put this in the world kind of thing and like was there a hesitation

[00:49:11] were there any parts of it that you're like hey is this gonna like rub somebody the wrong way or like which part of it were you kind of wrestling with there yeah I mean so I didn't realize how

[00:49:22] personal it was until I read it back the first time like there's a lot of um there's a lot of steps in making comics like you write the script but then you give it to the artist and the artist

[00:49:33] sends you pencils which is just like rough sketches of everything and then you get inks which is like that but with more detail and then you get the colors and then you proofread it five

[00:49:42] fucking thousand more times right like there's you get a lot of chances to sit with this thing before it comes out so yeah just the first time I read what bow and sent back I was just like oh

[00:49:55] whoops this is the story of my childhood didn't know and I think it's just this thing where I just used enough personal details because you need details for things that it kind of it it read

[00:50:06] pretty familiar to me um so yeah I think that like the family dynamic in the book is similar to my family dynamic growing up yeah there's the characters or kids that I went to high school and

[00:50:19] you've grouped with and yeah again I don't think it's something where you would read it and go like oh this guy is just inserting himself into a demon fighting story but I think if you

[00:50:30] are my mom you know you will go like oh yeah that's that's kind of a conversation we had or that's a you know that's similar to something that happened growing up so yeah I don't think it's it's

[00:50:41] it's so much like knowing that strangers are gonna know something about me but it's just this feeling of like oh if this book is not successful I'm being rejected me this is not the book didn't fail

[00:50:54] I failed I don't think it'll fail I think it'll do well but you know it feels like I'm not this isn't just a funny idea I had but it's like a bunch of stuff that that came from my history yeah yeah

[00:51:08] yeah and it and it it I think really will connect with a lot of people like just having you know magnetite both just reading it like right before this interview to like kind of be fresh

[00:51:22] I like already have so many people like I am going to tell like they need to read this shock thank you because they're going to like like and connect with it in a really unique way

[00:51:34] I also think that like I'm I'm seeing more like media kind of created around narratives of kind of like religious experiences that kind of to your point are not weighted with one particular

[00:51:54] agenda or the other and I'm wondering if you noticed that too in a different like I never saw media about evangelical culture growing up that wasn't like sure evangelical propaganda or making evangelicals look you know or just religious people in general look wildly show yeah

[00:52:17] stupid you know or just caricature so like this kind of like genuine reference to experiences I think about like yeah homes with crashing I don't know if you're familiar with that like I remember watching that and being like okay there's like these like aspects of Christian culture

[00:52:32] that he's talking about but he's not really like caricatureing really in any certain way he's just referencing that this is a part of culture and I think a lot of us connected with that

[00:52:43] are you noticing that as like a trend as well or like our people relating to your work in that way of like oh man this is kind of unique for me to see yeah I mean I I can like I can understand

[00:52:55] why you don't see it in mainstream culture a lot just because it's risky right like if you piss off Christians are gonna write fucking letters and be annoying about it and if you make it too Christian you're gonna fucking piss off you know annoying lefties who are gonna

[00:53:11] be annoying about it and it's like kind of just I can see how you're just like what's not even touch it because like it just inflames people's feelings whether you are super forward or super

[00:53:22] against it just you run the risk of pissing people off and yeah I think that's why you have media that just seems like it exists in a world where there's no religion and yeah I think that

[00:53:36] it's a lot of the media we grew up with right it's like it just like a lot of people are religious there's a ton of them people go to church there's a lot of churches so so in you know it

[00:53:48] it stands to reason that some of the characters in a show or movie or whatever would be religious but they're just kind of not and people just kind of don't talk about it and maybe there's a Christmas

[00:53:58] episode and that's that's about you know it's far into it as you get um hey you know who I think it's a pretty good religious character is flanders I think flanders is like it's like sneakily

[00:54:11] revolutionary because like flanders is fucking hilarious he's a goober but like they they do give him a pretty complicated inner life and there are episodes where he struggles with faith and like

[00:54:25] sometimes they just use the flanders as like oh this is just let's have them say what the cookie is conservatives would say and I think that's like great I love the symptoms and so but like

[00:54:35] I think that the best flanders episodes really make him a robust interesting character who's not just this punchline machine but like things about stuff and wrestles with stuff so yeah so yeah so I think like media does have a couple of interesting religious characters but just not many

[00:55:02] and I think just like it speaks to the fact that media doesn't have to hit four quadrants anymore right like you don't have to just get everybody to watch CBS at eight o'clock it's like

[00:55:14] you can do a graphic novel that a couple thousand people read you can do a podcast that a couple thousand people listen to you know things don't have to be these huge blockbusters they can be

[00:55:24] you know media is getting so niche I mean I think that's something everybody realizes like the thing to you that is the biggest property in the world your parents have not heard of or some of your

[00:55:35] friends have not heard of but this thing that is huge to you so I think just by the fact that like you can make a media product for a smaller audience now just means that it can get more specific

[00:55:47] and you can throw in more specific stuff and like I you know I don't know if the Christian right will find this book and what they will think of it they probably won't I mean I don't

[00:56:00] imagine they're browsing the YA graphic novel section of their local indie bookstore maybe they are maybe they are just looking for things to ban but they're probably too busy getting every

[00:56:11] everybody poops off the shelves so yeah so so I think this is yeah probably not going to get highlighted by lives of Tiktok who knows you know but yeah so I think it's just now now that media is a little

[00:56:28] more like fragmented the stuff can get more specific yeah I love that I am curious and I mentioned it earlier and and you know again this kind of gets into things that are happening towards the end of

[00:56:43] the book but there is like an element or a theme in there that you pull in of like different schools of thought or different faith organizations or even non-faith organizations kind of coming

[00:56:57] together for a joint purpose and I'm curious if that was something that you were just kind of percolating on or if that was something like when you were that you wrestled with when you were in youth

[00:57:07] group or like because there's an element of like well we don't you know we don't want to work with the Catholics they're like they're different and that was such a huge leap you were kids like oh

[00:57:17] like you drive around town and it's like oh we don't think that church is really saved or we you know and so I'm just curious what your thought process was there like the kind of the message that you

[00:57:30] were hoping to pull out of that too yeah I something that was always wild to me back then and now is like sure religions have a lot of differences but there's also a lot of similarities too like

[00:57:44] there's some stuff that pops up in all of these so like I don't know why don't we all get together on a Saturday and help some unhoused people or why don't we all do this thing that is included in

[00:57:59] all of our doctrines we don't because we're petty and shitty right like that it's so yeah I think I think I wanted to kind of point out the fact that that silly and just to like

[00:58:12] turn those societal problems into a supernatural crisis demons are invading well we got to work together like maybe right maybe my dad says this church isn't saved or maybe you know whatever

[00:58:26] the kids at my school say that Mormons are weird but like there's demons we gotta do something about it so yeah I think I I think I wanted to turn turn that into a supernatural you know crisis to point out how

[00:58:40] how silly squabbling about that stuff is yeah yeah so as we're kind of getting towards the end here like one of the questions that I wanted to ask was like what is next up for you whether it's

[00:58:58] like something creatively or even just promoting this work as it releases and it's coming out like what are some things that you are getting up to like I just saw recently I think you did something with

[00:59:10] oh yeah Rhett and Link or good mystical morang or something but those guys you have other podcast you have other things how are you connecting and promoting and doing you know whatever whatever you're

[00:59:21] getting up too creatively out of the book is out of your hand within that I need to know if there's oh sure yeah I don't know exactly when this is coming out but I'm gonna be Comic Con guy for a

[00:59:38] couple months I'll be down there at San Diego Comic Con in July and I'm gonna be kind of hitting the road going to various cons around this great nation of ours yeah which is so bubble came out

[00:59:50] our first graphic novel came out at like the height of the of COVID and so all of our events were virtual and we did a lot of zooms we did a lot of virtual book events but I never got to get out

[01:00:03] there and like hand the book to people or sign people's books in person so yeah that was that was a big bummer obviously you know bigger bigger bummers with COVID but a a small personal one for me so

[01:00:16] yeah I'm really excited I was you know I was a Comic Con kid I really love going so yeah the thought of like going out there with the thing I'm really proud of is is it's really cool and exciting

[01:00:27] I can't wait yeah we've got some cool stuff planned for San Diego and and yeah hopefully hopefully it'll be kind of a fun summer slash fall of meeting people and hand selling the book

[01:00:38] and meeting other cool comics folks so yeah San Diego Comic Con obviously but yeah I have a website Jordan Morris.net and you can get all my social media stuff there and follow me follow me

[01:00:49] where you follow people and I'll be posting about all those events and stuff cool are you coming to did for you know oh I'm not but Tinder does have a pretty good Comic Con doesn't it it does they

[01:00:59] don't call it that anymore because apparently it like sure yeah it's a very great part and whoever's running the the one they used to call it that and now it's like called like I don't call it and

[01:01:10] celebration yeah something something like that but yeah I would I'm gonna get a physical book I'm really excited to get one because the art is like incredible like I can't wait to see it yeah

[01:01:22] in like you have these like beautiful pages that are like edge-to-edge printed you know something that's happening kind of behind the blocks I don't know I just don't read a lot of graphic novels so

[01:01:32] like maybe someone who reads a lot will be like yeah they're how they are but I was like this is so fucking cool like I like yeah I didn't didn't get enough of a chance to shout out Bowen McGurney

[01:01:42] who drew the book it's just like such a such a brilliant partner and just did such a beautiful job and like you know seeing all their beautiful work come in with so emotional and like yeah just like

[01:01:54] just like such a such a genius with the expressions of the characters right like comedy is kind of hard and comics and graphic novels just like it stuff kind of has a hard time landing and timing

[01:02:06] is weird and but like Bowen just I think Bowen just did such a good job with the jokes the characters are acting you see how they feel their postures are very like you know indicative of how

[01:02:20] they're feeling I just I love working with Bowen so much and can't wait to see what they do next Bowen just like lots of stuff coming up for Bowen Roderney so definitely like yeah keep an

[01:02:30] eye out for future Bowen projects it just such a such a such a cool collaborator could could could not be more lucky to be working with them on this and yes Megan you've got a sequel I think

[01:02:42] would like to do one it matters how many copies we sell and if if folks are listening to this and yeah if you're if you're stoked on the book maybe give it a pre order if you can if this is

[01:02:55] coming out before before the July 16th release date pre orders are just like crazy important for books do I know why not really they are so yeah if if this sounds cool to you and you you want this to

[01:03:10] kind of continue give us a give us a little pre order and if it's you're listening to this after the books out obviously go go grab it from your local in the bookstore Amazon Barnes and Noble all those

[01:03:20] places bits dot l y slash youth group book bit dot l y slash youth group book you can see Bowen's gorgeous art you can get a bunch of pre order links read a couple of the opening pages

[01:03:32] and yeah I hope people check it out because yeah I would love to do more that would be that would be so much fun and I think there's lots of lots of fun stuff to do with these kids I want them

[01:03:40] to go to camp I feel like they need to go to church camp so yeah taking a day must go to camp Megan's gonna be personally like this is now gonna be like a personal like vids that uh of

[01:03:50] like making sure that we can make this a success so that Megan can get part two because she needs it I also think that Bowen must have known Coralant in the flesh because the portrayal of like

[01:04:01] just like him someone with like sonar vibe so like if it should get there like I this was great like wait hold but hold so did you feel like the characters were kind of did you feel like you saw

[01:04:15] yourselves in those characters oh yeah and maybe that's just for sure yeah our name but like I definitely like I I was reading it on my I had the the copy up on my big monitor on my computer screen

[01:04:27] and I took a couple screenshots and I was like setting them to Coralant like oh my god like this is this is like this is not a sort of like that you know and then there was a moment that I was like

[01:04:38] I think that the character is queer and I you know like I was like oh Coralant like boys we knew it cool yeah so yeah but I really though I do I did kind of end and was like oh I

[01:04:52] hope there's a part two like I want to see where this goes so yeah thank you hopefully I have all the Megan's important ones out there check it out if you want to see your name in a book

[01:05:02] yeah yeah yeah it definitely as as somebody who like was like hesitantly resistently dragged into being a youth pastor very young and very early in life like and who had like ridiculous stone or roommates like I'm gonna buy a copy this book like four my stone or

[01:05:23] roommate so that I had at 17 years old be like hey they wrote a book about it because I mean I should buy a copy for like the people who were I saw at the pole for see you at the pole and oh yes yeah

[01:05:35] absolutely oh I haven't absolutely the pole in years oh my god why don't we have a scene with the pole joking this there you come okay you have you do say the jars of clay is a heavy metal band

[01:05:49] right I feel like we're good so good see what the call will you give some places that people can find if you want to just kind of get quick you said your website I think so just like anything

[01:06:03] else that people can do to support your work and just kind of promote and help plug your both we should have this episode out before your release date but is there anything else you want to

[01:06:14] say just kind of about promotion or plugging your work yeah no that that that's it if you if you you please yes pick up the book tell a friend hey call your local library if you don't if you

[01:06:24] don't have the money for for the book if you're yeah if you're strapped for cash definitely request at your local library still counts as a sale for us free to you the whole community gets to enjoy

[01:06:33] the book so yeah if you're if you're strapped and you still want to check it out call your local library we love that and yeah for everybody else if you want to hand some copy on your own shelf bit dot

[01:06:43] LY slash youth group book cool all right well we're we're we're to get this episode out and people already know that we always yell about pre-orders they're important so I'll be yying on Twitter this has

[01:06:56] been absolutely delightful Jordan thank you for taking the time oh thank you guys yeah this has been really fun this has been really fun thank you I'm glad you responded to my bullying request to come

[01:07:06] on the show well I was patronized I was like you got to tell us if this is a coincidence I had to know that this is perfect thank you yeah this is fun what a fun yeah what a fun little little

[01:07:18] little piece of little coincidence love it yep we'll definitely keep up with you until next time all right that was fun yeah I'm I'm hoping thereafter nation I've never called it thereafter nation but I'm gonna call it thereafter I hope our listeners the nation of listeners

[01:07:42] whatever we're gonna call it thereafterers really go and like support this book and get us a sequel because we want to know what happens that oh that's not a story to continue and I think we could get at least 100 pre-orders from our listeners don't you think

[01:08:03] I think so I think so let's I mean we have no way of tracking that uh he's coupon code thereafter wherever you purchase it won't get you any discount there's no good luck but you could still type it in

[01:08:16] and then it'll say this doesn't do anything but I do think if if you do listen and you get excited in your pre-order then give a shout out to Jordan on social media and share with friends and share

[01:08:29] because like I said I read it I said this in the interview I was waiting for that moment that you know I would be activated or triggered and it was that never came I loved this and I

[01:08:40] have to know what happens next so we have to get a sequel that's that's non-negotiable we have to make this happen let's get those pre-orders write some reviews once you do get it it comes out

[01:08:50] into why and yeah I think it's gonna be a great great one yeah yeah for sure we're excited here but you all think and yeah thanks for following along with us as we have this season been

[01:09:05] all over the place with our release schedule we're continuing to do this I think we're gonna maybe try to take a more of a fixed break at some point but we have throughout the summer so far

[01:09:19] just had episodes here and there that we've wanted to release so appreciate you guys from hanging with us social media is one of the best ways to keep track Twitter Instagram etc of what we're doing when as well as just following on whatever platform you listen to it's

[01:09:34] Spotify Apple Podcasts, podcasts, or etc and also are getting any updates our clubhouse conversations on Tuesday morning so those have still been going strong we're pretty much there every Tuesday I travel for work sometimes so my schedule sometimes is here and there but pretty

[01:09:50] much those are our most consistent spots so if you are wanting to stay connected come come join us in the conversation and it's not it's not Corlana and I talking it's it's we throw out a

[01:10:00] question and everybody just comes up and has dialogue about that the exact kind of thing that we were talking about in our intro that we're craving so if you're looking for spaces to have conversations about deconstruction or things that you're wrestling with or just have some

[01:10:15] dialogue with people that are all kind of on different journeys but also kind of holding space for everybody else's journey then join us on Tuesday morning 6am Pacific time and all the other

[01:10:26] times and all the other times sounds yes all the other times and then if you want to support the work we're doing we do still have the Patreon it's a great way to help just us build a paper like

[01:10:40] this software and the various different things that we used get these episodes out and will help more people we got create some bandwidth and some space and time for starting to really get some information out about content morning next year which is something we definitely

[01:10:57] are going to want to start talking about relatively soon so a lot of things going on that we want to keep in the loop about as we keep going. All right we think that'll do it. All right until next time until next time.