S.7 E.30: Discussing the Book The Summer of 2020: with Drs. Andre Johnson and Amanda Nell Edgar

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit Dauntless.fm for more content

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We have enemies within our country

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a combination of demonology and sionp

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: The citizens are going to rise up and become deputized

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I have always heard President Trump, I like the way he talked

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: He reminded me of my S. Men

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Joe Biden last night in the debate, he's not even a human being

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Donald Trump and the Migri Republicans represented extremism

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you imagine we pay creating all the black American that pet this book about to Africa?

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, this is the evidence

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: You want me to make an act of faith

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Risking myself, my wife, my woman, my sister, my children

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm some idealism, which you are surely in just America, which I have never seen

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_06]: This is Profane Faith

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_06]: A podcast that engages faith on the margins

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Faith that has been labeled profane, non-conformist, nor even out there

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be exploring the intersections of the sacred, secular and profane defined God

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_06]: And look, we won't be trying to answer difficult questions

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Rather, we'll be engaging them and asking better ones regarding faith, race, gender and religion

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll be your host, Daniel Whitehodge

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Alright, here we are, here we are, fam. Oh yeah

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my God as well this is officially the last episode for season 7 here on Profane Faith

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_06]: This is your first time listening to Profane Faith

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[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Stitcher is gone, Stitcher are those two Google podcasts and Stitcher were big

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I take down their logos from my website and so

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah anyways welcome great to have you here

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_06]: This is the second part of a double header season finale

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_06]: The governor of the first one

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Who don't miss out there's some great conversation having with my

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Good newfound friend Alan

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_06]: So check that out just again wherever you download this ad or wherever you are streaming

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_06]: This from just go back and hear the the last episode and kind of give you a little context

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Of what's what's going on here and why I decided to set up a double header

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_06]: But I wanted to hop right into this because this this right here

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_06]: This new book the summer of 2020 George Floyd and the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Was authored by my friend my good friend who's been on the show numerous times

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Dr. Andre Johnson he's professor of rhetoric and media studies and university

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Reachers fellow at the University of Memphis

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_06]: He's also the author of no future in this country

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_06]: The pathetic pessimism of Bishop Henry McNeil Turner

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_06]: He's a by the way Henry McNeil Turner scholar like the expert

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_06]: An editor of these speeches of bitches bishop Henry McNeil Turner

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_06]: And Amanda Dr Amanda now Edgar who I just met a wonderful person studies issues of race and racism as they intersect

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_06]: With other identities particularly gender and class as she is the coauthor of culturally speaking the rhetoric of voice and identity

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_06]: In a mediated culture Johnson and Edgar coauthors of the struggle over Black Lives Matter and all lives matter another great read

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll put these links and everything in the show notes

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know if you go to our well right now our main podcast or our main website excuse me

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just sound cloud the domain white hodge podcast calm has been under were our under development for a while now. It's the service provider that I'm with is just horrible so I'm hoping

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_06]: By the time the new season starts season eight

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_06]: That I'll have a new website up and going in a new

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Server and service all together so I'm the process doing that so if you want to just go to sound cloud look up profane faith

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll find all the show notes and links there

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, please check that out. These two guests I brought on and I really wanted to anchor this season on this because it ends the way we started

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Again going back to see you know this the beginning of this season

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I started with kind of a state of the union

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Type of podcast kind of giving my thoughts on where we find ourselves you know at that point in 2023 here

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_06]: We are you know now pass the midpoint in 2024

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Head it into a very contentious election season. They they seem to have been really since Obama became president

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_06]: You know and and while McCain

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Who was writing against him you know in his first presidency of first term

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't Donald Trump it was all the auxiliary

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_06]: An ancillary issues that came on you think about the Tea Party movement. You think about you know black lies matter

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_06]: You think about the killing of black

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Particularly black men in particular and you know kind of the rise in that black transfer black queer folk

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_06]: You know the death of their bodies and no one getting held accountable for that

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And so much of this shit culminated in 2020 with you know COVID right that was the big thing on like oh my gosh

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_06]: COVID is going to take us out and then you have here you have his police officer who's clearly in the wrong

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And killing George Floyd and you know initially

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't believe they really wanted to charge his mother right

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, it was really people were holding out and holding out and finally you know there's so many protests people were just like

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's let's look into this matter

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_06]: But it takes so much

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Just to even get to that you need so much overwhelming evidence and even then

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_06]: We were still holding our breath about

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_06]: What's going to happen with the even if they go to the trowks we know in black community

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_06]: And communities of color for that matter we know that even if you have it on tape

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Even if you have the video of it even you have corroborating evidence

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_06]: These cats or or have a these these the police officers particularly have a really strong chance of getting off

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, it just it it's sickening after a while

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and no sooner did this book come out than we have yet another black body being killed by a white police officers

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_06]: who was known to have violent tendencies known to be a racist

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_06]: But yet he you know people are tired and eyes just a bad apple. No, it's the system

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so again this book is great. I highly recommend going and reading it. It's a quick read

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_06]: It's academic but it's not like oh my gosh, you know one of them heavy religious books with 700 800 pages

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Right and the first 400 pages was the author arguing against themselves

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Right and then they start their thesis on page 400. That's not this book

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, some great content chapters. I'll look at it. I saw the video this chapter one chapter two face the fear and do it away chapter five

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_06]: It's how we pick our enemy

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you know chapter six this is live. This is real with a question mark

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_06]: So again, it's just exploring this. It's one way of looking at it

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_06]: There's so much reform that has to happen. It's hard to say what will stick what will work

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but I tell you what. This is a great read and they offer some great insight

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, into moving forward. So without any further ado, fam

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_06]: It's been a great season seven again in highly recommend of this first time coming to pro fame faith

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Check out the other episodes and enjoy this conversation

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_06]: That's about to go down. I fam. I see y'all season eight

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Pairs

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't let's do it. All right. Um, well

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Join us. This is profaned phase. I am talking to doctors

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Andre Johnson and Amanda Nell Edgar

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, they have written a book called the summer of 2020 George Floyd

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_06]: And the resurgence of the black lives matter and move when I have this is a great book

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I have so many questions, but first and foremost welcome both Andre

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_06]: I know you've been a regular contributor. Amanda this is your first time. Thank you so much for coming on the show

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. My brother Dan Hodge, you are doing wonderful work

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_09]: As usual. And we are just so honored to be a part of this.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you. Yeah. No, you know, I appreciate that. It's it's folks like yourself who have built up this podcast. We've been

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_06]: working on this for just so many years. I think that's not your first time.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I know that you've been working on this. I know that you are working on the show.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you've been working on the show and you're working on it.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, that you're working on it but just a little bit of that.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really curious about this.

[00:09:34] Okay.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, wow that is a big question.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: You know I have always been somebody that was very invested in fairness and justice

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and that has looked different ways in my life right out of undergraduate.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I was I toured with a theater company we went to rural rural towns where they didn't

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: have any theater and did a children's theater production for the kids there so that

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: they would have access to live art which I think is so important.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And after that I decided that I wanted to teach people and so I went back to school

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: to be a secondary teacher but that ended up in the university system.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Met Andre and I'd say the rest is history.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what's up, no that's what's up.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And Andre what have you been up to since the last time?

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you were on last season right at the beginning of this season you might have been

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_06]: on what's been going on since then since I've asked you the birth to now question

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_06]: what have been going on since the last time.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_09]: It started when I was a wee low boy at the age of two.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And but no matter it's the same old same old working first and foremost finally getting

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_09]: this book out.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And first of all can we just shout out you seriously for the blurb that you gave on the

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_09]: book and the support that you had early home, reading like the first draft of it so thank

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_09]: you for that.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_09]: But also I've been really now thinking about whether they have that I want to do next.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been working of course here at the University of Memphis and I've been doing

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_09]: some work with Memphis theological Seminary, Christian theological Seminary.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_09]: And now in my own activism, my own community organized it.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to now try to put this all under one umbrella, my decision to manage work with the

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_09]: color convention project.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Really want to just try to put this under one umbrella and hopefully, prayerfully,

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_09]: find a place to do that and do that rail to support other people who wanted to do that.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_09]: We were just talking earlier when we first got out about supporting graduate students

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_09]: and junior scholars and people in the community that want to do the things that we are doing here.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's what I want to do, I want to find money to do that.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm looking at grants and looking at other possibilities right now.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not shifting away totally from the University of I think that that is going

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_09]: to be the base but out of that, I want to do a whole lot more than what I'm doing right now.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, that's what we're, that's what's up.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_06]: No, that's what's up.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Feeling willing to be.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, yes.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no, no.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I've been asking myself that question was next for a while.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I think there's so much and I'm sure, Mandy, you can relate there's so much that goes into

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_06]: getting an university position and then just dealing with all the nuances that

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_06]: comes with, you know, women being in my naughty, being in, you know, a lot of male

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_06]: dominated, cis-header old, you know, male-dominated spaces being man-spaced.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I think all those things weigh in on the whole idea of scholarship, right?

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And then you get to a place where I'm just like, all right, you got to relatively, it's

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_06]: like, I don't, I'm so used to seeing dust in front of me.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Like now that things are clear and I'm like, okay, what's next?

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_06]: So this book here, I think really encapsulates a lot of the questions that I had in regards

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_06]: to the question I've been asking a lot of activists is like, what is working?

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't say what is working?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_06]: What are we adding this thing?

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_06]: It feels like we often are spinning our feet 30 years went by after the, I've said this

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_06]: story before, but I wanted to let y'all give you some context of what I'm coming with

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_06]: is, I really, you know, my mom was part of the black, uh, the black path of movement back

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_06]: in the 70, you know, late 60, 70s and then fast forward to me.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_06]: I was brought up in that and knowledge of that.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_06]: So my entry into a lot of this stuff was April 29th, 1992, uh, in the LA uprisings.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and so I remember, you know, after all that was done in the National Guard at

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_06]: left and rebuild LA was sort of coming together and people were all like, oh yeah, we're

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_06]: going to do this and this and that, crimson bloods.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_06]: It was amazing.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_06]: The only time in my lifetime that I've seen, you know, gangs come and come together,

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_06]: scaring the hell out of a lot of people because they were no longer killing each other

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_06]: and now they were focused on downtown politics and actually taking office.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and I remember a brother saying an older cat, you know, who's brought you around my

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_06]: age that I'm now and I remember talking about, man, we need to do this.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_06]: We just, yeah, brother, we just wait, you know, we just got to give it time, time and, you

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_06]: know, we're going to be in a different place.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And I remember that those, those words haunted me and, and that on April 29th, 2022.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, because here we are in so many, in such an, in my opinion, I would just say that.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and, and a worse spot than we were even even then.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_06]: So I'd be curious how y'all came to this and putting some of this stuff together and some

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_06]: of the scholarship that I don't think another, a lot of people know, I know I didn't

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_06]: when I was reading this of the people out there.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_06]: That is a long introduction.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me step back whoever wants to go.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_06]: I apologize.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_09]: You want to take that first and man to cover up?

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, um, Andre and I when we both first started at the University, I was a visiting

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: assistant professor.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He was starting there as an assistant professor.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was in 2016.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So Black Lives Matter had, you know, really kind of blown up 2013-2014.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But there was a lot going on in the city of Memphis around that time.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And so if you know Andre and I hit it off.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So we would just chat socially, you know, hang out and have beers at RP tracks shout out.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, you know, I don't remember which of us brought it up but because, you know, Andre

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: studies, rhetoric, race and religion, um, I bring that kind of social scientific perspective

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: of, you know, interviewing people and trying to kind of really talk to folks in the community.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a really a perfect, um, hearing for us to work on a project together.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Now I was really resistant to a book.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I felt like I did it.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't who was I to write a book, right?

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of people feel like that.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But Andre talks me into it.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So that book is called The Struggle Over Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Came out from Lexington Books in 2018.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but so that book was out.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Really I think pretty immediately we started saying what's our next one?

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03]: What's our follow up?

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: What's our on core and in the summer of 2020 it was very, very clear that we needed to

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_03]: to get things together, get a follow-up to that book.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And so really, I, we was still the summer when we started putting things together.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It would very, very quickly to get people onto Zoom, which is way easier.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_03]: People knew how to use Zoom then.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: To get people onto Zoom, get groups together so that we could talk to people who

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: everyone from somebody that was at their very first rally or their very first March.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_03]: They had never done anything like that before all the way to people that had been community

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: organizers for decades and get them together kind of see where opinions converged,

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_03]: where they were different and really try to get a sense of what the movement meant

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_03]: from the people who make up the movement.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Participants.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And, and those participants were actually participants in the summer of 2020.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And doing the unriads that was happening right in front of our eyes.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Let me just, um, co-married just a little bit on what Amanda said because

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_09]: in 2018 and this goes out for for people who are thinking about your own research projects.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_09]: One of the, one of the things I really love about working with Amanda and partner with her

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_09]: and I writing is that we came together in 2018 to write that book together and like she said,

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_09]: almost immediately we're thinking about what is next.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, what was next was solo projects.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_09]: It was like like hip hop, you know, you come together with a routine and you come

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_09]: and then we play the way and do so.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And then in 2019, she drops culturally speaking.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And then in 2020, I dropped no future.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we say, and then the pandemic here, we said, look,

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_09]: it's time to follow up on the 2018.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_09]: So we come back together to do the summer of 2020.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't even see that, right?

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_09]: What is yeah?

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But, but go on back to your original question about where we are now and what's working.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's what you started.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_09]: You say it was working.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_09]: One thing that I have been trying to tell people about the summer of 2020 now,

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_09]: as I go around and talking about the book or just talking about summer 2020,

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_09]: is that for whatever happened in the summer of 2020, we actually saw for a moment in time

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_09]: that whatever we were doing was working.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_09]: And what I mean by that is that for the first time in a whole lot of our life times,

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_09]: we saw the majority of this country actually come together to say for the first time,

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_09]: not even after writing a game.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But for the first time, there might be a police inquiry.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_09]: We might just, you know, they might then tell in the truth.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And and and and on top of that, not all now we're going to say it.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_09]: We are going to put money behind it.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_09]: We are going to change our way of doing things at universities and all of these institutions.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Our sporting events are going to look different.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_09]: How feels like going to look different.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, going to get millions of dollars.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this wasn't investment. Right.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And so the summer of 2020, what I try to tell people again is that at that moment, we had it.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_09]: We knew what it could look like.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_09]: We knew with this multi racial, multi,

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_09]: multi generational movement could look like and could move now.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_09]: As we were trying to want to, we'll be talking about in the conclusion of the book.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_09]: I think Amanda and I know that new that backlash was coming just in no

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_09]: how at the time, but you knew that it was coming.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And we began to start seeing the jazz a little bit right when we were finishing the book.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Finishing the conclusion.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_09]: January 6, some backlash to summer 2020.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_09]: The I back last.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_09]: CRT back, all of those things are back voting rights.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Back last. The two major bills that was being pushed in the summer 2020.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_09]: George Floyd and policing bill and the journalist voting rights bill.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Nothing done backlash. So, but we did get the gramps and I think you're right.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I meant the glimpses, scared a lot of folks and made people nervous and people were

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_09]: and this is not what opinion people were like this.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_09]: We were watching right before I asked the literal, the could have been the literal transformation

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_09]: of American society and we just cannot help it.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no I think that's exactly right.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And we you know we talk about in the book too.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_03]: The part of it, part of what made it work was the particular moment.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you look at the statistics of how, and if you look at 2019,

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: how much time people spent outside of their houses,

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: at events, you know, rest even restaurants and bars is that all the places that you go

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that aren't your house. And if you compare that even to right now,

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_03]: it's like half we spent half as much time out of our house as we did in 2019.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, you know, we are, we are whether we're post pandemic or not, I won't get into that.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But we are some time after those initial quarantines, we just have never gotten back to being around

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: people. And that moment in the summer of 2020 was really the start of this loneliness epidemic.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And I think that combined with the fact that then we were also on social media all the time.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to unhealthy. Unhealthy debris. Right. Right. Right.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But you were not seeing, you were not, you weren't, we were not missing out on seeing new stories.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_03]: You were not missing out on seeing that your friends were going to this march of this protest.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the combination of all those factors combined with the horrific death murder of George Floyd,

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_03]: the horrific death of Brianna Taylor. Those things together, I think galvanized in a way that really

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_06]: was really unique, really historically unique. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. No, I would agree.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think, yeah, you said it. I mean, that's that's concise. That I think that there's a lot of that.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm glad you named the pandemic. Another guess was on last week when we were just talking about just

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_06]: the effect impact and nature of being lonely. And all the things that come with that, right? All the

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_06]: intersections being a woman, being trans, being black, being black and trans. And it's like,

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_06]: you just kind of just go down the list. And it's just like, man, that's what I was talking with my

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_06]: therapist about, you know, this last week was just like, man, just the loneliness as a black male

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_06]: in a certain level. So that needs to be it's own show. So I'm going to have to get y'all back to

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_06]: to chop it up on that. Um, but so how how then do we look at a George Floyd event? Because I remember

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_06]: in 2020, there were all these. I think in the fall of 2020 and in the subsequent semester or years

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_06]: fall of 2021, academically speaking, there were all these positions. We went on a system professor

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_06]: of intercultural race in theology, race in religion and we wanted this and then all of us say it was like

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_06]: this huge like this moment. I remember under you tweeting and being like, okay, I see this.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Are we going to be able to sustain this? Um, and like one year later, it was just like you

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_06]: don't say back to we want to add the colleges. That's it. It would be looking at European

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_06]: medieval history. We haven't learned enough about the European ancestors of this country. So

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_06]: but I'd be curious, where, where, um, you talked a little bit about just in chapter one,

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I saw the video George Floyd Black Lives Matter. What are what are some of the things that came out

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_06]: because I do appreciate the qualitative perspective of this text.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I start. I will say that, um, yeah, those positions and here's the ironic and,

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_09]: and like said part about it is that the people that they, those positions that are no longer

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_09]: positions who they have to think, who were getting the positions early on and then of course,

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_09]: now you know places like Texas and other states are higher whole life than Georgia.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Alabama, now you know, I'll just eliminate those positions and airmarking that money.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I think North Carolina just the money that was for DEI, they have now put it to the police

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_09]: budget on that. But you can't make this up. It is just like, okay, we don't. And so

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_09]: but I still go back to the point that even without that initially, whatever we were doing,

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_09]: whatever we were teaching, whatever we're going on in community centers and in church basements or

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_09]: wherever people were learning about this. I think we have a checkup where we talk about

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_09]: intersectionality, right? So yeah, but people are talking with thinking about this and then seeing it

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_09]: in real time. And then after George Floyd's murder, we began to start to hear about Breonna

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Taylor and all that all buried because now activism, the ground have been trying to tell us they

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_09]: were there in Louisville and Georgia. They would, they knew who was going on but without the

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_09]: uprisings that happened to the summer 2020, we don't even bring those names into the conversation.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_09]: So the whole point about chapter one, I saw the video was when that one person said that

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_09]: that was changed, I think was a her. That changed for us all the video.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Employee and that if I did not have, if I had not seen the video, maybe I wouldn't have been as

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_09]: strong out here as I was because as you know, they have been just before.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_09]: We act, what made you like this kind? Why not, you know, Sandra Blaine?

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Mike Brown, Vanessa, we're right. Let me do this. It's okay. Right.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_09]: But what made and that person just succinctly said I saw the video?

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And that resonated with us in a way that, oh, okay, something else. And as Amanda

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_09]: eloquently put it that all of it kind of converged together and made it the moment that it was.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So the outside of your moment is the day or directly that we talk about a lot of times

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_09]: well, your redemption moment or your your conversion moment. You know, when do you, when do

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_09]: you not, when can you not not see again? I mean, this becomes that moment for a lot of folk

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_09]: that we interviewed and a lot of folk that we saw on social media for the very first time. And when

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_09]: you start to study the movements and the protests that were going on, many of these folk,

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_09]: the overwhelming majority of the folk, this is the first time they ever done something like this.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And the middle of a pandemic, that's the other thing that we wanted to kind of bring out as

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_09]: well too. We almost kind of it protested in a pandemic, you know? And so it was just like

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_09]: up in our and so the point is that whenever happened and made this thing converged like it made

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_09]: us so aware of the issues and problems that we have with policing in this country, yeah, that people

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_09]: risked their own lives literally not think or to literally because we didn't know anything about

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_09]: something we didn't know anything about this man. We you know, people were talking about, you know,

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_09]: mask up or that mask in there. We don't know when we know, um, um, no antidote to no carnival. Right,

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_09]: medicines, you could take what people felt compelled to get out of the streets and they did.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think, yeah, to think back to that time, it hasn't been

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that long ago, but it's hard to remember that time. I think we were all just in such a state of

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_03]: just shock and trauma, but in the height of the, you know, early protests, we didn't even know if

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_03]: it was okay to be outside without it. If you remember, right, there was a lot of criticism of protesters

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, oh, you're spreading the pandemic. And then of course, there's that very famous study

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that actually said the people, the cities had the biggest protests actually had the lowest rate of

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_03]: COVID spread. We talked about this in the book because people stayed home. Who would have been

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: out at the bars and restaurants because they couldn't drive because streets were full of people

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_03]: protesting. But yeah, we really, we did not know anything about the pandemic. The other thing I

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: want to add to what Andre just so eloquently said is, I think you also have to remember,

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_03]: we're talking about you saw the video and, you know, you brought up the LA uprising. There's a

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: video there too, right? There's all of this scaffold essentially that, you know, all the way back

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: way further than that, right? But also then in the recent history. So all of the work that Black

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Lives Matter had been doing for almost a decade prior to the summer of 2020. A lot of people had

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: heard the phrase Black Lives Matter who really hadn't thought about it all that much. But then we're

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: in this situation where you see the video, how do you not think about it? I mean, that is disturbing

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and horrifying. And it was everywhere. We have a chapter on that too, the continuing trauma of

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_03]: that video just being shared and shared and shared and shared. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_03]: go ahead. Yeah, well, I guess I would just say it's again if this confluence of factors that

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: really would be very difficult to replicate. If you could at all, including I would add some

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03]: of the backlash that was happening even while the protests were going on, that effectively just

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: illustrated why the protests needed to be happening. You got 100 degree weather, cops,

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03]: poking holes in the water bottles. Like if you could prove the point, any, you know, like this,

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_03]: this is such evidence for why folks were out there. And I think all those things combined to just

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: really the heat just kept dialing up. Right. That whole long hot summer. Right, right. And

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_06]: respectively this I would just want to point out for those following in the book you're talking

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_06]: about chapter three. What's more important to bigger pictures is the intersectionality one and it

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_06]: looks like this is the chapter and six when you're talking about just being straight, you know,

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_06]: streamed this is live. This is real with, you know, quiz question marks. And there's a lot of work

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_06]: around it. I'd be curious to hear, you know, particularly the mediation of of this,

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_06]: right? Because you know, Rodney King was a VHS tape. This cat, you know, from across the way,

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_06]: actually duplicated the tape literally, tape folks, fam y'all, Gen Z.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Man, tape, old school man, to handicap, right, handicap and here we have the

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_06]: way we, way we protest, right? I mean, what, I mean, I know that's kind of that's a big question.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's a man that's a man that's a man that's a man that's a man that's a man that's a man

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_06]: to come on. Come on, that's what I'm talking about. I sit in, I sit in your feet. Well, I mean,

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I would say one thing is it would be difficult to overstate the polarization of today's media.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And I would argue that that is largely because we do not in this country have a real

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: publicly funded media source. The way that media organization stand business is by selling

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: ads and really when you are selling, you know, when you're reading something that has an ad or

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: watching something that has an ad, those advertisers are paying for your eyeballs. They're not

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_03]: paying for whatever is being shown in the video or printed in the newspaper. They're paying for your

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: eyeballs. So of course, the incentive is not only to make things as large as you can make them, but

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: also to lean into whatever people already believe. And that it was such a huge part. I think in

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: some ways blew up in the faces of some of those media folks, some of the kind of control organizations.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: In that, these protests were a big deal. They were dramatic. You could get good footage of them.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: People would tune into watch. Now, sometimes the footage was then framed as, oh, this is destructive

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and violent. And they're burning down their neighborhoods that garbage. But that was this whole

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: conversation, but I mean, people were coming to these protests from all kinds of places. So I think

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_03]: in a lot of ways actually the coverage even when it meant to be negative in a lot of ways still

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: served the Black Lives Matter folks. At the same time, we did have this political move. And we

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_03]: talk about some of the politicians that got involved, you know, send in the National Guard,

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: all the stuff that really also contribute, like Andre said to January 6 to all, I mean,

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_03]: all of this backlash stuff that's still happening. Yeah. Because the way that it was covered was so extreme

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_06]: that, that, whoo. All right. With that. Well, let me ask this then as we're thinking about

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_06]: what makes it because we're seeing some of this now, right? With the protests that have been happening

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_06]: on campus college campuses, at least at the time that we're recording this, right? And it's

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_06]: across the country, right? And you I just think I just read a thing two nights ago about, you know,

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_06]: there's a couple of other universities that were, you know, calling in the cops. And then of

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_06]: course, during this we also saw reports of infiltrators, white supremacists showing up to do nothing

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_06]: but cause anarchy and to burn things up. And then it all got left at the doorsteps of BLM.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Right? In terms of just this country is anarchy, this country is, you gotta start prepping,

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_06]: the wars are coming and also it turned into this, oh my gosh, the cities are revolting and they're

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_06]: gonna come for your guns. They're gonna come for your daughters. And so you gotta protect yourself

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_06]: and dig in. How do we way through some of those things right now? Particularly as it pertains to

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_06]: the police because the police are at the center of so much of this dare I say all of it. Right.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And you know, for a moment that I was gonna actually were you speaking uh today's protests on

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_09]: college campuses or you want to, or were you talking about some of 2020? But I say anything happens

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_09]: in the summer of 2020 people show up. You know, I think we forget that a cow ripped house

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_09]: shows up and they protest. Right? Yeah. Strap, right? So he was, he was the perfect example

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_09]: of a provocateur that would call and just to try to start something. And then got called up

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_09]: with what he got called up here. Right. And so people were trying to tell us that at the time

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_09]: they were like, you know, we through, we go home, there's these folk here that we don't even know

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_09]: this show, that's a whole podcast now. The talk about the Denver protests and how the FBI and

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_09]: other agencies trying to infiltrate and try to stimulate and try to, so I mean that stuff has been

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_09]: going on. I mean that can co-intel pro going all the way back. I mean, you know, so we yeah people who actually

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_09]: are all about trying to make life better. And then what I call community organizers and activists

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_09]: we know this. We understand this and we still run the risk of being misrepresented because

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_09]: the larger picture is important. The larger picture is that, you know, maybe not today, but,

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, hey, back 20 or 30 years from now, you might be erected a marker at the same place where

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_09]: the police just arrested and stopped don't everybody here on the campus. How do I know that? Oh,

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_09]: because we've already got those moments from 30 years prior, you know, and 40 years prior. So,

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_09]: so, you know, being on the right side of history really matters to a lot of people who are out there

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_09]: trying to protest and try to produce authentic freedom. But again, though, you're talking about

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_09]: policing. Policing is, this is one of the reasons why, you know, I, you know,

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, at my social media posts a lot, you know, and I do it, you know, tongue and cheek a

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_09]: little bit maybe because I don't think it happens but yes, you will happen. It's like I love it.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_09]: It's police reform possible. Yeah, right. I mean, you know, right, when you get, when you have

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_09]: seen as much stuff as we have all seen at every time, if there's anybody that's listening to this

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_09]: podcast right now, hear me out. If there is any kind of a violence or any kind of just mass pay us

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_09]: at any protest, I guarantee you 99.9% of the side is the police initiative. Yeah, we don't do it with

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_09]: that. Yeah. What are we going to do with that? We have steady on top of steady on top of steady coming

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_09]: out of the summer 2020. There was steady out the steady 97.6% somebody crunched the number of protests

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_09]: were peaceful and the violent ones, now we put violence in quotation marks because we have you

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_09]: know my position on this day. Violence against what it would but yeah, yeah, uh, uh, uh, uh,

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_09]: was that we're valid. It like over half of them, the other two point or three point whatever it would be

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_09]: was initiated by the police and they just, you know, police just, you know, you locked up in the

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_09]: police just come and you, uh, spray your hair gas. Well, so we were hearing those same stories

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_09]: right about that. We were hearing these same stories with the folk that were on campus and I'm

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_09]: like, you know, this is what happens when we forget the summer of 2020 because there's a misremembering

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_09]: campaign going on right now and if we ever want to know, you know, panel like a historian,

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_09]: rhetorical historian here, if we ever want to know how come people still think that the civil war

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_09]: was about terrorists and states right all we have to do is look at what we're doing now. The whole

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_09]: notion of misremembering is fully, I mean, taking full effect and if we're not careful we

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_09]: 10 years from now, we're going to think that the summer 2020 was just like a blip and nothing really

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_09]: there was no pandemic. It was just a battle thing that we got, we got away from and we came

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_09]: out of and we were better for it and then we're going to just keep on going but we need to remember

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_09]: the summer 2020 not only for the support that came that I talked about earlier, but also as

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_09]: mentioned about the loneliness and horrific time in which that was a lot of folks predicting

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm getting this was like, oh yeah, moment you know from our, you know, researching our religious studies

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, people were saying, oh, this is it, you know, Jesus has come back, you know,

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_09]: and all the time of things because one point two million people got that's biblical

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_06]: death proportions. Yeah, yeah, that's the one that's the one them got numbers up there, man. That's yeah,

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_06]: but remember this before I, I mean, just I want to, I just want to point out a quick resource

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_06]: for folks, I'm sure you all know about it and then the man, I want definitely want to hear what you

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_06]: got to say. Samantha J. Simon just put out a book on NYU press just came out here in March of 2020

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_06]: called Before The Badge and how the Academy training shapes police violence. It's a, it's a great

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_06]: look at just how so much of this stuff. It's baked into training and again, historically the

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_06]: police have never been friends to ethnic minorities in protest because you will never see the police

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_06]: going after Nazis and whites of premise and fascists, where they go after us. But but but but then we we saw

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_09]: that and I'm full of display January six absolutely. January six is the case study it is the perfect

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_09]: example. Right, it's not about your protest is about what you are protesting and what a lot of white people

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_09]: found out is that when you stand with black folks and people of color, you get called up in

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_09]: that as well and then that's your moment that you have to like, oh okay, wait a minute we would just

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_09]: hear a piece of it. Yeah, just like we said, but just like we said before, you know, doing a lot of

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_09]: this stuff here locally real quick. I have talked to a lot of our white sister brothers and

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_09]: and can folk who come out initially thinking that you know maybe y'all ain't doing it right,

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_09]: just I'm going to be nice and I'm going to go and talk to the people and all of that and we just

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_09]: okay go ahead and then when they come back all disappointed, then we can begin that really have a

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_09]: conversation. And I really applaud the wants to stick to it because you don't have to but this is hard work

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_09]: this does not one meaning does not open up the flood gates of generosity like, oh we were

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_09]: just you know, I mean we just discovered after the vicious murder I'm saying murder they have

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_09]: been convicted yet but murder of towering nipples we just found out not too long ago that

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_09]: the ordinances that we felt so hard to get was not even an implemented that the police chief

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_09]: and the former mayor said we're not leaving doing what you're doing that. I think that's what

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_09]: he's doing it and then when the new mayor gets in, then we found out that the police chief

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_09]: still hadn't signed no one this is to make sure that the police are doing things that they need to do.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_09]: So I mean police and has always been a problem and some people make the argument that it's

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_09]: doing exactly what it was created for so maybe it is working and that too and that way but as far

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_09]: as protect and serve and all of that stuff that you know we think it is and it doesn't matter how

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_09]: much money if you throw it, it doesn't matter how much you know it's the only thing that can keep on

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_09]: getting bad results that we just continued to throw money at and until we really have a reckoning

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_09]: with policing it's nothing is really going to change from the protest left, the protest left

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_09]: would remain the same because we know that you know who is really against what it is that we're

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_09]: trying to do and they know that many of us will be go out there, many of the protesters don't

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_09]: have any weapons, they just avoid the other side. It's almost as if if I know you have weapons maybe

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I want you to allow a little bit because you might shoot back. Right and then never that's

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_09]: steady, right that study that the violence that's happening to police officers are not from

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_09]: the people of progressive group, it's one of the more conservative ones, they get all the guns

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_09]: is that how that's my that's how we all have I can go all day on that I'm gonna shut up now

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_06]: sorry. No, no this is good man it man a break is off a little some. Yeah well I mean

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying anything that's you know original but they're just our so many structural pieces

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_03]: to this police reform that even if there were a vision for it how you even begin to pick apart

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_03]: you I say jokingly pretty often like I really hate how police make me hate unions.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like I've always been a big union supporter I'm both my parents from the union but then

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of it's like what on earth do we do about the police union but then there's the other piece

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_03]: too that for a lot of working class and poor kids can't afford college you know aren't

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_03]: looking for a career path like that but they want to make some money they want to have some

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_03]: jobs stability they don't want to work their bodies into the ground the way you know I saw a

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_03]: lot of people in my community laying concrete and then you're disabled by the time you're 50

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_03]: well one of the things that you can do without a college degree is become a police officer and

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I it's so clear you know if you fall in line with what everybody else is doing you can move right

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_03]: on up the line you can make more money you can get better hours better beats there are all

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: of these incentives and one thing that we saw during the summer of 2020 and immediately following

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that was people were saying well we need to chain for within right we need to have better people

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: on the police force yeah what I saw just anecdotally was that what was actually happening where

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_03]: that the best people on the police forces could not stand it anymore because it got to be so racist

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: among their gurus that actually the best people so that is an ideological problem and we know

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: the ideological problems are very rarely solved by force right I mean you like you you have got to

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_03]: get in there and pick it apart at the deepest level when we get to a place like that

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I have a solution I wish I did well I mean it's interesting that anecdotal I was

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_06]: actually just thinking about it because my neighbor two houses down four police officers

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_06]: African-American who was a life law I mean he retired as a police officer but he retired early

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_06]: because of that very reason he was just like I felt like 10 years ago I could still kind of

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_06]: work with some of the white guys that were coming in he said because they would tell me like straight

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_06]: up like I joined because I know I have issues with anger and I know I can I can do things here

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_06]: that I'm probably going to be able to get away with and he said it became so overwhelming

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_06]: that more and more white guys were literally coming after the second Obama election they were

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_06]: showing up he said in droves of just like you know I basically want to come and be able to

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_06]: do what I want to do in this situation and he left he was either you know he resigned early

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_06]: whatnot and here it is again this idea notion all so I'll get black police officers I think

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I think we're going to be all right you know I'm saying the system man is the system is how you

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_09]: we train without you get promoted is rewarded you know those guys who killed how we vehicles

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_09]: again I mean when you look at the video at the end when they're explaining themselves when

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_09]: it's like you know they try to cover and they try to do all but they honestly thought

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_09]: as I listened to them then nothing was going to happen to them this is what we do this

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_09]: what you I mean it would be interesting to see when the case finally gets to court what the

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_09]: defense is going to be and I think it may be a defense on training there's like this what I would

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: like to do so look it's going to be the police department on trial as well too so

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_09]: and we'll see I'm not saying that might happen or that will happen but the way that they have been

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_09]: how they've been talking up so far that's what I'm thinking that might happen

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I just wish I think one of the things that can help you know is that if we've truly

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_09]: understand and believe other folks when they tell you things that's been going all for years

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_09]: it would help tremendously not to be so shocked it's also surprised any longer I mean even with

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_09]: this is just four years ago with these protests that's going on college campuses and stuff

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_09]: what do you I mean anytime that you protest any time that you are you know putting your body

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_09]: out there and you make an assstatement it's you need to understand that yeah you know if the police

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_09]: come you know depending on how they feel that then you could be pepper sporty you could

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_09]: get the blood of a wife you could be tear gas those are the bullets right they got

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_09]: pepper I mean like I mean you know so so count the calls somebody some wise bear foot

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_09]: profit from godily home-tample go see it that you know uh uh count the calls because

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_09]: you know what could happen that is necessary it's gonna happen but you know what could happen

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and secondly you it doesn't matter how you protest your protest depends on what your

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_09]: protest would never be except so we need to stop with this peaceful protest thing

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_09]: or I was just sitting there or I don't know you work but it doesn't really matter

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_09]: it doesn't really matter at all so I think in the summer of 2020 at the height of it

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_09]: when we saw those Seattle bombs locked up and protect the activists the uh blocking brown

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_09]: activists locking up and just standing in front of the police in between the police and the protesters

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_09]: when I saw that I'm like you know hey something is getting to people now this

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_09]: this is different this something is going on something really that we need to look at

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_09]: and I started to see it all across and then remember I meant with the NCAA the following year

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_09]: we had Reverend Seiko and that group to come we were in Seattle for the conference and we

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_09]: had them come and talk and many of them were part of those protest efforts it was just a

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_09]: full discussion and I knew then that we needed to you know write about it it would be the

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_09]: perfect follow-up to the struggle over all our matters like I mean struggle over Black Lives Matter

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_09]: all our matter but there'd be several years before so yeah I'm going I'm going

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I just was gonna piggyback on what Andre was saying I think one of the things and this is

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_03]: particularly I have seen among white people and particularly white people that had not done anything

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_03]: protests or any kind of justice work before was that there were the protests in the street but

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_03]: they're also if you remember there was a scholar strike there were different things that were

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_03]: happened in the scholar space and one of the things that I the has stuck with me from that time

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: that scholar strike happened and I remember getting an email that said just remember that our

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_03]: students really need us and we need to make sure that we're there for our students even though

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: there's this strike and the thing that spoke to me so much is that what I hear in that is

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_03]: something I hear from a lot of white people which is if it can be protest but not if it's inconvenient

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: it shouldn't be inconvenient for the protestor it shouldn't be inconvenient for the people around

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_03]: there should be no inconvenient and the thing is the inconvenience is the point if it's not

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_03]: inconvenient it isn't going to make anybody change right and I think you know if we think of

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: the Montgomery Busboy Hut right yeah people I think sometimes people forget how long that went on

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that was a long people were wearing their shoes out walking to where they had to go that was not

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_03]: convenient I mean that was pretty horrible it has to be you know it has to be that it has to be sustained

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_03]: it has to be a demonstration of how much it matters and I think one of the things Andre that you

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and I have talked about is this peaceful protest thing one of the things that went along with

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_03]: everyone kind of the rebuttals to that was well it's peaceful but what if I need to go across the bridge

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: in an ambulance to get to the hospital or you know whatever I'd be like well that's not peaceful

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_03]: because that I could die from that friends that is the point I mean no you know when he's trying

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_03]: to make anybody die on the way to the hospital. The point is you might have to sit at the other side

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_03]: of the bridge for a while until you get the message that there is something that needs to

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: to have attention paid to it and action done to prevent it in the future that's that.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And now you know the backlash even to that is that wonderful state legislator is around the

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_09]: country is now making certain protests of felon I'm heard about that yes yeah felonies with large

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_09]: funds going after groups so if as an organizer myself if I organize something even if I'm not there

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going back home and something happens I can still be brought up you know if my name is

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_09]: associated especially when the paperwork if I get the parade permit which is another way the

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_09]: control protests and so yes this whole notion about social movements and hope that the people

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_09]: that we appreciate and this is what really makes me ask the question are we just paying the

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_09]: service or are we really appreciate it and some people have just come out and say that you know

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_09]: they really didn't like the civil rights movement and that's fine but the folk who who who

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_09]: long support just lift up the civil rights movement as the perfect way to protest don't really

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_09]: know the civil rights movement the modern they civil rights movement or any other protest for that matter

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_09]: because they were very in making for in convict that was the purpose came to that's part

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_09]: of can you get done balance when you do after you go through all the steps you do the protest and you

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_09]: want to the way up with this you want to make people ask the question hey why don't

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_09]: focus in the street yeah why don't pay a minute why don't you have these folks I want you to be able

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_09]: to pick up the phone call the mayor of all why are these young people in the street which I

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_09]: haven't done do about that's exactly the point the point here why are they in the street and when

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_06]: you know you need to come out here enjoy this this is good I have so many questions I have

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_06]: so many questions for y'all I'm gonna we're gonna be we we we probably gonna have to do a part

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_06]: two to this I want to be respectful of time because there there I mean you know seriously

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_06]: because y'all are touching on and again I will say again as as a scholar myself this is well

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_06]: foot-noted y'all of potent stuff that I didn't even know there was a field force so this is awesome

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_06]: and I recommend it um I think the the question then well there's several questions then be that that

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_06]: that that that that come out of this when you think about black lives matter George flow we here we are

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_06]: 2024 recording this prior to the November election in 2024 y'all may be listening somebody

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_06]: he may be listening and it's 2026 and we're heading off to slave camps I don't know I hope not but

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_06]: there's the possibility of you know I'll brother my great and to southern Canada um

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_06]: what is the weight and I we can end on this because again I want to be respectful of y'all's time

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_06]: and but what is the weight of the 2024 election we have wars happening somebody was just posting

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_06]: that about Congo and what's happening in in in the Congolese with these kind of this mineral

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_06]: grab if you will for all these electric cars blah blah so that's a whole situation you got now

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_06]: the oil rigors have just gotten a new bill pass I was just listening to this on NPR last week and

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_06]: basically they basically just said F U to the natives and they were just like yeah would you we

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_06]: you're going we're gonna finish that so we got environmental stuff going on there saying oh

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_06]: this is gonna be the hardest summer on record I'm like well of course like the last 10

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_06]: summers have been the last hotest hotest on record why wouldn't this be any um what's the

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_06]: weight of voting and this election as as we move into the middle of the 20s the 2020s

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_09]: you want that Amanda no I mean check the five of the quote speaks about that for activists

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_09]: and for people who are concerned about those issues and many more I mean women's reproductive

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_09]: choices on the ballot yeah right so on the ballot workers rights on the ballot democracy is on

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: the ballot all of you be the last chance to vote in an election so really no no for real yeah

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_09]: no I think that's not perfect no it is not perfect it is the truth if you reproji it 2025 I'm thinking

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_09]: about doing the teaching around that so it lays it out it is it out and so the people that are

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_09]: gonna be in an administration that was support all of that would not be moved by our movements

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_09]: they might affect those camps that you mentioned would be probably the place where a lot of

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_09]: we go and so people need to understand that people need to know understand that and know that

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_09]: but in chapter five one of our I think it's a title of chapter five is you know it's how we pick

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_09]: out in you know one of the people in the movement said that you know we have come to the conclusion

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_09]: that whoever is in office is not really a friend but we need to pick the enemy we need to work with and

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_09]: in other words since this is I mean for all the enemy for all the good stuff that we like to say

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_09]: about America America America is still in empire and it's not going and the rain of God is not you know

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean America is not going to be bringing in the rain of God so it's a empire but you want to work

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_09]: with people that are going to have to be elected in office people that you are fully

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_09]: and move to like if I come to know if I'm not doing it I'm not doing it but if I can move people

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_09]: in such a way that your next election or the election of people behind you might be problematic

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_09]: then hey maybe you can move at least meet me halfway because there's another side to this

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_09]: and we saw that 2016 that the move would not happen no matter what you do

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and so that's one of the things that we talk about in chapter five that Black Lives Matter

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_09]: had to rethink about electoral your politics yeah and that's how it takes to become

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_09]: important and what we discovered is that everybody's talking about how can we get more young people

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_09]: involved in the electoral your politics and our answer to that literally is to get them involved in the

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_09]: what you get involved in the movement you quickly realize that the other person over that

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_09]: you're trying to get legislation from that person sitting behind the death and get signed a piece of

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_09]: paper is very important and all of a sudden now oh how do I get a person that might be more in

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_09]: clan to do what I want to do I got a vote I got a support I got to bring up a friend I got to do that

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm already organized that be organized around there and that's exactly what's going to need to take place

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_09]: we need a major you know people like William Bobber and others are doing it with the poor

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_09]: people's campaign and stuff like that ongoing but it needs to be this election is not just

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_09]: the cookie color oh well I don't know you need a movement that's sitting around and an agenda

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_09]: so as soon as you get in if you got a one-room of joy here's what we want I mean nope nope nope

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_09]: doesn't it we this is what we want or we just have to get somebody else that would be in clan

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_09]: not somebody that we can't move with somebody else that we can and that's what I think

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_09]: the activists that are really understanding the sign of the times I think that's what they're doing

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_09]: and I think that's what they're working on and that's what they're educating others about

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_09]: and please disregard some of these other folks who had just been popping up all of a sudden

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_09]: you know talking about you know I'm going to vote here I'm going to do that I ain't I'm not

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_09]: going to vote you know that that has been tried we saw the ramifications and if we want to

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_09]: do some differently that's what we need to do we need to have a movement and we need to

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_09]: understand the signs of the time because democracy is definitely as the manager just say it's on the

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah I hope folks remember that Supreme Court justices are not forever but pretty close to it

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think about you know the women's movement in the 60s into 70s

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Roeve Wade what a win how quickly how quickly a huge win like that can just be gone

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah and there's nothing any social movement can do with that because you're already screwed up

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: you know we already had our chance to make our boys heard at the polls

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_03]: when not enough folks do it the right they are so organized on that stuff I mean the way that you

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_03]: can just see the pieces fall into place when they get that first step in their plan there is no

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: going back so you know I do not personally love that Biden said it's not between me in an ideal

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: it's between me and the other guy but it is between him and the other guy so I just it's

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: baffling frankly to me I'm no you know I'm no Biden stand but that is the choice that we are

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_03]: gonna have and I think you know folks that have not kind of reconciled how important it is to vote

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: in this election it's really important has there ever been a more important election I'm not sure

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_09]: whether there has it and then of course a voting and I like how one pun that says that you know

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_09]: if you say you can't vote for the one candidate like in this case it will be Trump you can't vote for

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Trump he follows that up by saying therefore I am going to vote for the other candidate which is Biden

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_09]: so the point is that they're coming vote but you got to vote for the one that is going to

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_09]: at least be the person and I was speaking about activism and what they are wanting

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_09]: speak to the person that you and their administration and the other vote that are part of the

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_09]: society because here's the thing and let me just I'm glad we own this because this is something

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been working with with with with people here in Memphis and in West Tennessee actually

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_09]: what what tends to happen is that we will say something about Trump and we are already I'm not

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_09]: going to vote for Trump but I'm going to vote for somebody else in his part see you you can't even

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_09]: do that even if the person is telling you that hey you know what you know I think we all have some

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_09]: you know some restrictions on on bulletin but I'm not going to be as radical as it no

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_09]: but your party is not so you are not is now the party is the ideology it's it's conservatism versus

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_09]: progressivism it is now what party that is going to push these add these you know so if you care

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_09]: about any of the stuff that many of these activists especially in the summer 2020 was fighting for

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_09]: there's only one party now that is actually doing the stuff that you can actually move

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_09]: folk on and so if you don't do that you're going to be stuck again and we get stuck again it may be

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_09]: at least for a lifetime yeah we never get out of yeah woo y'all are covering a lot of

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_06]: granted we I don't even feel like we've touched the surface of this and so fan the book is

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_06]: the summer of 2020 George Floyd in the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement it is out now

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_06]: yes or no okay it's out now I will put a bylink in these show notes because folks need to read this

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_06]: and it's done in such a way that I applaud both of y'all for doing it it's not a 700 page

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_06]: treaties of you know all of this but but you know what you're talking about making a

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_06]: right but you'll cover a lot of good ground and I think folks need to be reading this this

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_06]: needs to be in classrooms thank you so much both of you for coming on again there's so

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_06]: much more I was gonna throw y'all some hot topics in terms of a protest like some of the

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_06]: things that the rebuttal that people always give but we're going to have to do this again I will email

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_06]: y'all and we're going to hook this up we're a quick work in folks' fine year to send that to MacArthur

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Genius Grant money to you please do what is it though that's all my list that's all my

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: book and there's a lot of yeah well I am I have left the academy since we published this book

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and I own publishing company we go strides book coach and published books for leaders of all

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: types community leaders business leaders and you can look us up at page and podium.com

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and there's a contact information if you'd like to work with us you can follow up the application form

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I would love to hear from you. Okay I want to talk more about that. I was I'm so glad she mentioned that

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_09]: because I was going to mention it you did not mention that all right so good yeah uh uh where we

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_06]: were working together he used to be a hype man see I can see why no I can see why like man and then

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_09]: you can see you can see him is awesome the books are awesome and um you will do yourself a huge

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_09]: thing by sending your work and engaging in the process of writing process one of the best writers

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_09]: that I know Dr. Mendenin and you can just you know as to as the book late scholar of the group

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I I I I I just you can find me on whether AE Johnson PhD A E Johnson PhD on Instagram

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_09]: on L Facebook just look me up okay AE Johnson PhD I would definitely put those links in there

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I you have some very amusing and rhetorically centered tweets and post brother I will give you that man

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not sure why you don't have a couple million followers already but I'm not paid by

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to know if you know if we'll be still Twitter yes yeah oh that's right well he does have

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: his Facebook friends maxed out so you have to read it on somebody right friend the limits of Facebook

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_06]: anyways that that's it y'all y'all gonna get into home another conversation listen fam thank you both

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_06]: seriously um this has been an enriching conversation thank you fabulous thank you so much thank

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season and she endures perhaps being smack one night

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and then she seeks help from the church there is a pile of dead bodies behind the Marseille bus

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and by God's grace it'll be a mountain by the time we're done you either get on the bus or you

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_04]: discrimination into the law and I am tired of communities of faith being weaponized

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: because the only time religious freedom is involved is in the name of bigotry and discrimination

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm tired of it hi I'm Nate producer and co-host on the full mutuality podcast

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: let's talk about inequality it's everywhere whether it's rooted in race gender ability or sexuality

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: there's bound to be an imbalance in power influence representation and access

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: on our show we want to explore areas of religion culture and society where justice is needed

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: in order to bring about true mutuality I hope you'll join us for some enlightening fun and at times

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: uncomfortable conversations as we envision a world where everyone can live free from systems and

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: structures that keep us from being truly equal you can find us on your favorite podcast app

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: or visit our website fullmutuality.com to find a list of all the platforms we're available on

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: subscribe today and we'll see you on the full mutuality podcast