[00:00:00] This is a Dauntless Media Collective Podcast.
[00:00:04] Visit Dauntless.fm for more content.
[00:00:07] Oh yeah folks, that is the group, the mini.
[00:00:12] Oh we've had them on the show before.
[00:00:15] They got a new song out.
[00:00:18] It's dope and I had a chance to sit down I have never seen. This is Profane Faith, a podcast that engages faith on the margins, faith that has been labeled profane, non-conformist or even out there. We'll be exploring the intersections of the sacred, secular and profane define God.
[00:01:40] And look, we won't be trying to answer difficult questions.
[00:01:43] Rather, we'll be engaging them and space where we can kind of create, oh, Grisley came over to say hello, where we can create some music that kind of expands our horizons about what spiritual music or faith-based music
[00:03:03] or even just faith-adjacent music can look like and sound like and what that experience can be bless what I just have open space. So I enjoy music. Yes. I enjoy singing with the band. Yes. No more questions. Um, yes. Oh, yeah, my name is Krista. Well, that's terrifying. Thank you. That's great stopped worship leading. I went to school for theology at some point. And that's how I got connected with Gary
[00:05:40] and sing with the many,
[00:05:41] which was kind of during the pandemic,
[00:05:44] kind of in that kind of range.
[00:06:48] And I started attending United Methodist Church in middle school where I sang in the choir there. That's why I started going there so that I could sing.
[00:06:52] And that church had a great tradition of doing
[00:06:57] progressive, theologically progressive music.
[00:07:00] And so there I felt I called a ministry to continue in that tradition.
[00:07:05] And a part of what we did there was singing songs by the many.
[00:07:08] Okay.
[00:08:01] All right. So for those of you, Hannah and Darren, you've got been, y'all been around since the original.
[00:08:09] As we're thinking about the era that we live in, it's every day is a new thing and it seems
[00:08:15] like we've regressed, it doesn't seem like what we have regressed.
[00:08:20] Where does, what's the space then for Christian music?
[00:08:24] How do we look at that? of what it is to be in community, what it is that they're even singing. And for us, singing about questions and uncertainties and doubts and challenging and even reinventing things has been just something as core to who we are and what we do. And so I feel like the pandemic especially presented this huge opportunity for us as a society
[00:09:41] to think about why are we doing what we're doing?
[00:09:45] You know, everything from us going to work every day I know my church is asking the question of what does it mean to gather and why? Because a lot of people after the pandemic were like, I'm not coming back to church. I mean, I like Jesus and all but Church, I don't know. And so we're just trying to start trying to sit with that question of what are people doing when it comes to community and what are people doing when it comes to
[00:11:03] Transcendent faith, you know something that you leave in that's bigger than just themselves
[00:12:07] Speaking for myself at least, it's the reason, one of the reasons that my core values are what they are. And also one of the reasons that I'm kind of finding myself stepping out away from the edges of that and into something newer.
[00:12:14] Which I think a little bit more expansive.
[00:12:16] At the same time, those traditions are still a really big part of the story of our country.
[00:12:23] It's a really big part of a culture that we're surrounded with. veins and just in terms of or where you find yourself these days in regards to them and you all got seminary degrees here, you got music degrees, you got all the good things. I'd be curious how you see yourselves because I'm with that. I mean, I think from my own personal self is like, yeah, I don't want to throw away Jesus per se and the ideology around that, but man, it's tough to go and actually sit
[00:13:43] in a place and listen to stuff. friends. And they lived in Chicago for a long time and now they have moved to Asheville, North Carolina. So that has created some new challenges because we used to gather in person a lot. But we realized during the pandemic that you didn't really have to be together
[00:15:00] in person because we could do Zoom calls, we could do a bunch of things. So it hasn't base for us at this conference in January. Mark McAlien, I believe that's how you say his last name. Okay. And so that really gave us a new, it's nice to get fresh ears on the music. Yeah. That gives you a fresh perspective on stuff.
[00:16:20] So yeah.
[00:16:21] Okay. All right.
[00:16:23] All right.
[00:16:23] Anybody else created Chime in your own production,
[00:16:26] mixed down all that. aspects of, you know, music that I wouldn't really do as a soloist. And so, for like, we are enough, we, I really wanted it to be a combination of more like, gospel-y sounding churchy, but then also like a pop sound, because the song itself doesn't really even refer to Jesus or anything church related.
[00:17:42] So it's a nice combo of like, some of our computer for the most part. And guitar amp modeling stuff has come such a long way that everything you're hearing on this track from guitars,
[00:19:02] at least the electric stuff, is all a modeled amp.
[00:19:05] None of that was like a live in the room. into each other and offering suggestions. We kind of rewrote some of the harmonies for the ooze and things while we were there and just kind of got to figure that out together. So there's also this cool piece of like, some of this is just individual creativity and it's also synthesized with those ideas bouncing off of each other. Yeah.
[00:20:20] Same place real time.
[00:20:21] It's cool that we can have all that happening together.
[00:20:24] Yeah.
[00:20:25] Now that's what's up.
[00:20:26] I mean, I think that's as how do you theologically line up a particular song, like, you know, and how Jesus, he do you want to be, I guess, you know, because you know, like I said, people off, right? I don't even get too advantage of it. I always tell people I'm fluent in evangelicalism. So I can, I can, I can relate
[00:21:42] to that. And I can talk it, although I don't believe in you that anymore.
[00:22:45] anti-trans and LGBTQ bills that were passed just this year. They were introduced and passed this year.
[00:22:46] Stuff doesn't go, move through Congress's,
[00:22:48] until it's anti-ending, it's oppressive.
[00:22:51] Right, right.
[00:22:53] When we think about the upcoming presidential elections
[00:22:56] and even the GOP fighting within its own ranks
[00:22:59] about who's gonna be the worst possible
[00:23:02] presidential candidate line,
[00:23:04] it seems to be a race to the bottom.
[00:23:06] That it is. Powers are saying we still have power, right? We still have the ability to influence it. It is us that give the power to the powers that be, that make any of their abilities possible. That means how capitalism works. And so to then come up with this anthem, if you will, of declaring that we are enough is countercultural.
[00:24:22] It's a moment that we're in where we're,
[00:24:26] even in the Barbie movie, it's like, But what if it is the God within us who is empowering us to not only survive the things that happen as we look to Jesus, who was put to death at the hands of the state. And yet was enough to overcome the state and death.
[00:25:42] If we believe that narrative, or if we look to the world that we're living in, We're also just talking about this idea of where this sits in our theology, where this sits in the church. And for me, I extend that to that same thing where, again, pop culture or current contemporary news is you are more likely to be assaulted by a clergy member than you are by a drag
[00:27:05] queen, but the drag queen is the how God shows up in our lives.
[00:28:22] Not hinging it on an appeal to power or an appeal to authority. at all. I think in regards to, oh, theology Christianity, I think a lot of very important to actually portray the things that Jesus did or like go out and actually do the things Jesus did but also to like speak like's amazing. Did you listen to anything else we did? Yeah! Oh, those are the key words. So I shared this song last week with a bunch of different groups that I thought it could really relate to. And I really was getting into it and I was like, shared it with a group of clergy women and youth ministers and deacons in the Antimuthist Church, which is a reflection of what God says to Jesus and his baptism, right? Like you are dearly beloved. You are my son, whatever. I don't know what it says. I've got to read that. Something like that. Something like that. But that like, and this is what, this is what we are told as children of God. you think about that, whatever theological framing you have for it, or if you don't think about it theologically at all, it makes it something that we can all affirm about each other and connect with each other over. Mm-hmm. Yeah. One of my favorite things that I've been part of with the many is, well, there's a lot of things, but we of artwork based on the identity of the people who create it. Yeah, yeah. No, I think absolutely. I think that that's powerful. Like, and you mentioned something about, you know, people who have been hurt. And I get that funny I thought it was hilarious I was just glad I have the number now because there were haters who were emailing they would you know how widespread was he in 2020 and have a very stern look upon human sexuality. It's not just Ice Cube that you just follow anybody's comments and that shit comes out.
[00:39:02] So I'd be curious, particularly being black, progressive, all those things tend to not
[00:39:06] necessarily always align. that folks who, for example, grew up during the AIDS crisis, like all these different aspects of what it's meant to be black and queer. And it's so interesting that for so many of us, like it's clear in our own, in our own shoes, it's very clear that we've both been
[00:40:20] ever present and ever essential to the life of the church
[00:40:24] and that we've had like a year of, if I said people would attack it, but if someone else quoted me, including my name,
[00:41:43] they're like, oh, that's a really important thought.
[00:41:45] Isn't that interesting? That's what I'm trying to live into right now. Yeah, you are enough. Yeah, no, got a song about it. Yeah. Have you heard? Oh, man, here we go. Um, Chrissy, you want to add anything? I know you got a lot in there going on and I can see under that beanie and back behind
[00:43:02] the glasses.
[00:43:03] I can see just see.
[00:43:04] Yeah, I'll keep it short because I generally ways that I keep my pieces that, you know what? You can be and do and believe exactly what you want. I get you. Don't bring it over here. Okay. I want you to talk about when we're in California.
[00:44:20] Well, it's happened a couple times, but you'll sometimes wear these wonderful and amazing
[00:44:25] t-shirts that are just about being black. with because I hope that that will help to move their meter some if they're in a place where they're not used to interacting with five people or they are racist, sexist, homophobic, and they need some sort of assistance and good interactions with others that will help them.
[00:45:41] That's awesome.
[00:45:43] And so for me, that helps I'd be curious that I don't want to ramble on like how that interacts and how that plays apart in music and engagements. I'm also open to like, you know, stories from the road as well.
[00:47:02] I'd be curious like're not to be here. You're not to be here. I wanted to be here. They would, yeah. And so it's things like that where, yeah, like it's just eye opening for me. And I'm sure it's not eye opening for our people of color in the group.
[00:48:20] But it's just been, I'm just grateful
[00:48:24] to be able to live because I wasn't in my hometown where I grew up. But
[00:49:40] because I don't know, I think the conversations weren't quite
[00:49:44] there. And I think the my is the best idea. And like, I should have known that and didn't. And like, that's something that's been a really, a good experience for me to like learn. Learn and like hear about those conversations. And then also, I think something that we try to do
[00:51:00] in the group is to model equity in decision making
[00:51:06] and finances.
[00:51:07] And I think that's, that's what breaks up groups and whatnot. And I'd be curious as a group and again, Jonathan, because I believe Jonathan, your
[00:52:20] back, epic background is Filipino.
[00:52:22] I am Filipino, yeah.
[00:52:23] Okay.
[00:52:24] All right.
[00:52:25] How does that play into a role? Yeah, so yeah, I'm Filipino American. My parents immigrated to the states when they were kids, met in college, so I am first generation and my family born here in the states. And I was born in Evanston, Illinois. It just very Christina lives. A lot of that's tied up in the fact that I've been musical since a very early age. I don't know about that, but I'm sure there are some awful videos of me playing Suzuki via Lin floating around. The band is going to try and dig this up, but I'm in trouble.
[00:55:00] No, I think some of that was I did a lot of what the song feels like to me is all of the differences of us, all the different ways that we express, whether's been a good reminder for me that it's enough for me to show up as who I am with the experiences that I have
[00:57:44] the feelings that I'm feeling
[00:58:43] places we're in are predominantly white. I'm a tall black man with locks and.
[00:58:46] You can spot you in a crowd, where you're using it.
[00:58:49] What?
[00:58:50] He blends in.
[00:58:51] He blends in.
[00:58:52] He blends in.
[00:58:53] And so I am seeing people stop on the street.
[00:58:56] They're like, oh my god, it's the many.
[00:58:58] Because I'm there.
[00:58:59] Amazing.
[00:59:00] But both Hannah and Jonathan have talked about the differences
[00:59:04] in how people in those spaces engage with them thing. And then it's also really interesting where Darren and I often will kind of like be heading back from like a lunch break or something. And I think this happened at the same conference a couple times where we were heading back to the venue from lunch. And I will make it there. We're in this conference center.
[01:00:21] It had a giant escalator is like three or Hannah or Christina. But it will be clear that they're not
[01:01:41] really sure how to interact sometimes with with Darren or Krista, even though they might want to actually, you know, speaking of hair and tension, texture and stuff, you know, this is all audio, but I'm an Asian guy, but my hair is long and I normally wear it in a bun and it confuses the hell out of people. People oftentimes don't evangelicalism and that's it. I try to help folks realize that Christianity is way bigger than that. This is just one sect. It happens to be a very dominant and a lot of it, a very wealthy sect, but it's nevertheless
[01:04:20] one sect.
[01:04:21] I think that comes out a lot, look into Christianity and look at some of the things, I mean, there's so much more going on in the body and so much more involvement with that. I think Jesus talks a lot about this. This song in particular, what do you want folks to come away with? I mean, obviously it's in the title, but what else do you want folks to come away with? We can just go around the couch here.
[01:05:41] Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot of how it could be taken, but I think that everybody has their own things that they feel like they're maybe not enough in different areas. And just, we like to write songs that are like you could just get in your head and just like sing them in the shower randomly and you're like, what song is this?
[01:07:00] Oh wait, nice.
[01:07:01] And it's something that like really, you might not believe it, but it just sort of gets ingrained in there and eventually your subconscious is like, why not? like as activists, we can never do enough to make the thing happen that we're hoping for. But what I hear in the song for myself and for those groups that I'm part of is that what we bring is enough and like what we have done for this day is enough. And our
[01:09:24] as I am and I am enough just as I am. And it's not too much.
[01:09:25] Love that.
[01:09:26] I love it.
[01:09:27] I love it.
[01:09:29] It's so easy to lie.
[01:09:31] It's so easy to hide.
[01:09:34] Is are the words that open the song
[01:09:37] and that describe my struggle.
[01:09:40] Like in the last few years,
[01:09:44] feeling the weight of
[01:10:49] has the final word. How do I love myself? Right? How do I, you know, the great commandment love God and love your neighbor as
[01:10:53] you love yourself? How do I love myself? In the midst of not
[01:10:58] feeling like enough? How do I love myself? When my bank account
[01:11:03] is not enough? Shout out to the Patreon supporters for being
[01:12:03] then it's your fault and you're not trying hard enough. It's like, no, we sing these songs
[01:12:06] and we write this music as people who are in the hard times,
[01:12:10] that people who are in the doubts,
[01:12:12] people who are in the ugly places
[01:12:14] where I've interrupted several of our sets.
[01:12:18] We're like, yeah, I'll just say y'all know,
[01:12:20] I don't feel like I'm enough right now
[01:12:22] where we're singing the song.
[01:12:24] So hopefully you can join me in singing from that place standard or just get to this point to be enough, but specifically for me, I think it's to like to be wanted to belong to Take for people that want to be in relationship and community with you. Yeah And I've definitely experienced that with this crew even though sometimes it is easy for me
[01:13:41] Like Darren was quoting those lyrics to so to kind of like hold hold stuff because I'm afraid if I let people know how
[01:14:47] for me what I grew up on commission, Fred Hammond, you know, even take six to the lesser extent, you know, the wyens. But so much of that, like I remember
[01:14:52] reading in somewhere and finding out that Fred Hammond had gotten a divorce
[01:14:57] and I was like, why didn't you talk about, the, uh, saw getting knocked off the, the, the, uh, the, uh, horse where Fred, like, I mean, sorry, Kirk was kind of self-righteous in some ways.
[01:16:24] And then he fell off thing and then he's, he's a very different man as a remarried guy. Yeah, definitely, definitely. But it's interesting to watch artists, especially from traditions that used to that taught you, you have to look perfect and potent. Oh, absolutely. It's interesting to watch them start to deconstruct
[01:17:40] that based on real life. Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm gonna put all this stuff in the show notes as always, WhiteHarchpodcast.com, Chester's now here shaking and grooving for everyone. We just came so we can hang out with the animals. I tell you, you're only getting a small caption of them.
[01:19:01] This is just a very small.
[01:19:03] But the song is, We Are Enough is available
[01:19:06] everywhere. So hard to believe what we can do will be enough You are enough, I am enough in the love we are in love You are enough, I am enough Breathe in the love we are enough
[01:24:20] We are, we are, we are in love We are, we are, we are, we are in love an imbalance in power, influence, representation, and access. On our show, we want to explore areas of religion, culture, and society where justice is needed in order to bring about true mutuality.
[01:24:22] I hope you'll join us for some enlightening, fun,
[01:24:24] and at times uncomfortable conversations