Shiny Happy Who?? - Introducing The Duggar Docuseries

[00:00:00] This is a Dauntless Media Collective Podcast. Visit Dauntless.fm for more content.

[00:00:07] And welcome back for another episode of Leaving The Village. I am your host, Kathleen Reynolds

[00:00:23] and I am your host, Jessica Goforth. And we're back! It has been a whole minute. A couple

[00:00:33] minutes. A couple of whole minutes. We've had good reasons. Yes, we've had good

[00:00:40] reasons. We've had a lot going on in our personal lives and we have had other

[00:00:47] projects that we've got in the works in the background that we've been working

[00:00:51] on. But we are still here and we are back with more breaking news. This seems to be

[00:01:00] what pulls us out of the woodwork every time. Well, it's funny because it's one of the

[00:01:06] things where it's like, we haven't recorded for a while but this is like right on topic

[00:01:11] and it's pretty big and we have to say something. Yeah, it is. And so we were excited

[00:01:18] because Kathleen and I are friends, so we always talk on the phone from time to time regularly.

[00:01:25] And yeah, the other day I was like, Kathleen, have you seen the news? Yeah, yep. And I got

[00:01:38] an email or text from early in the morning from a dear friend of mine and he had been

[00:01:47] putting little bugs in my ear for the last year or so. Almost two years saying there's

[00:01:54] a documentary and the works, saying anything but like we're really excited and I think

[00:02:01] it's going to be good. And I was excited to hear more but I hadn't heard from him in

[00:02:06] a while and he texted me early in the morning. I think it was Wednesday morning this past

[00:02:13] week and it was like, it's here. The documentary trailer is here and he dropped it into my

[00:02:21] DMs and I was like, oh my gosh, okay. So I'm sitting in my work desk, not even thinking.

[00:02:28] Like I should have thought that I would need to be prepared for what was going to happen

[00:02:33] when I watched it. You shouldn't know about it. I shouldn't know better but I didn't

[00:02:39] and I just hit play. And it was like, world domination was the goal. And I was like, fuck

[00:02:48] yeah, okay. All right, we're going straight there. We're going straight there. Which is not

[00:02:57] a topic that we have talked about. And it's actually a really good thing for us to eventually

[00:03:04] like we're going to obviously go through every episode. And we might have two part or

[00:03:10] free episode. I don't know, it depends on how deep we end up going into it. But one of the

[00:03:17] very real goals of ATI was to get students into state governance into Washington and into

[00:03:31] places where they would be the ones making the policies. Right. Well, let's get into that

[00:03:36] in a minute because I just want to first like set the scene here. So if you haven't heard

[00:03:42] if this is just your like leaving the villages in your queue and it pops up and you're like, oh,

[00:03:48] a new episode of leaving the village. Here we go. And you hit play and you're like, they're

[00:03:52] talking about a documentary. What are they talking about? We're talking about the new

[00:03:58] documentary on Amazon Prime called shiny happy people. And it is the Dugger story. It's

[00:04:09] basically the behind the scenes, the Dugger family secrets. And I think that's how they're

[00:04:16] building it because that's the name everybody knows. That's the thing that people are like,

[00:04:23] oh, you know, there's this. There's this family. There's the show we know about them.

[00:04:29] We've seen this in the news. We've watched the show or seen buzz about the show. Everybody knows

[00:04:36] who well a lot of people know who the Duggers are. So we've covered them a ton on this podcast.

[00:04:45] But I think what what I wanted to say that surprised me when I hit play.

[00:04:50] You know, I expected the stuff about the Duggers. But immediately they went into this is the

[00:04:58] this is what's behind the Duggers. This is what the Duggers is about. It's this thing called

[00:05:05] IBLP, this cult that they were in and then it's images of Bill Gothard. It's images of the

[00:05:15] choirs that you and I are in. And like it's all that we're probably back there in some of the pictures. Oh,

[00:05:23] I know I am. Yeah, I'm curious to see what footage they end up using. What archive footage they end up using.

[00:05:29] The choirs I'm definitely in. I'm in every single Knoxville choir that ever was. Because I was

[00:05:35] during in during that exact period of time. So I've known for over a year that this was coming because

[00:05:44] I on and off. I mean, contact with Katie Joy. And as a result, I she tells me things sometimes about

[00:05:59] things that are coming along or whatever. And she told me that there were two documentaries in the works,

[00:06:10] which is true. There's another one that the trailer will be dropping in June. And that one was going to be done from

[00:06:20] the perspective, like that the hook was going to be the doggers. It was going to be about ATI. But the hook

[00:06:31] that they're using to grit to draw the public in was the doggers. And so I wasn't surprised that they went

[00:06:39] right into all of the ATI IBLP stuff that was not a shocker to me. And I was surprised at how well,

[00:06:51] how well done everything was in a short trailer. It wasn't even an extended trailer. It was just a short trailer. And it was boom,

[00:07:00] boom, boom, like all of these power hitters right there.

[00:07:06] And so let me say real quick before we get further into it that we will cover this. We will cover the next

[00:07:16] documentary. And then there's a book coming out I believe in August that is about a lot of female ATI survivors.

[00:07:27] Yes, we will cover that as well. Yeah. So this is a big Alexis summer as far as yeah,

[00:07:36] Alexis is involved in the book. And so this is a really big summer as far as kind of exposing ATI goes,

[00:07:45] which is great. And we will be here for all of it. Yeah. I think it gets frustrating for all of us to keep seeing

[00:07:54] the people that were involved in this documentary like going, how many ways and how many times can we say,

[00:08:01] they're not a church. Right. It's not a church. It's not a church. I know let's be clear about that.

[00:08:08] It's a cult. It's not a church. It's not there. It's not like a denomination or it's not a religion. It's a

[00:08:16] cult. It's a church organization that became a cult. Yes. If you guys want to see some drama,

[00:08:25] go to the Facebook page for Amazon Prime and look at the comments under the shiny happy

[00:08:35] people trailer. The trailer. Yeah. It gets interesting. And there are a lot of

[00:08:44] people who are like, well I went to that once in the 70s and it was all biblical and blah blah blah.

[00:08:49] And I'm like, yeah, you went once in the 70s fab.

[00:08:53] If you were a boomer in the 70s, you went to a bus basic seminar. If you were a Christian

[00:09:01] and you attended any sort of mainstream evangelical church in the US in the 70s,

[00:09:08] you went to a basic seminar. My parents did. And it was early or I was like 81,

[00:09:16] 80, 81. My parents went. Yeah. What people don't realize A,

[00:09:21] it's the same seminar. Like the seminar that I went to in the 90s was like it was taped

[00:09:29] from an earlier seminar. It's the same exact seminar. It didn't change. And then

[00:09:34] in a Niohda, not one thing you gave it over and over and over and over again.

[00:09:41] Same textbook, same stories, same illustrations, same principles, same outline,

[00:09:49] same everything. Like you could take your notebook from the 70s,

[00:09:54] go to a seminar in the early 90s and it was exactly the same. Yeah.

[00:09:59] You could word for word all the notes would be identical.

[00:10:04] And two, that what you see in the basic is the tip of the iceberg.

[00:10:12] Even though there are plenty of things in the basic that are mainstream evangelical.

[00:10:18] They're just kind of... Well, there are plenty of things even in all of that

[00:10:24] that are non-biblical, but they're presented in such a way that people,

[00:10:32] like normal, reasonable people take them with a grain of salt.

[00:10:36] But they're not intended to be taken with a grain of salt. They're intended to be taken very literally.

[00:10:41] And after the basic seminar, what... The vast majority of people who did not go to the basic seminar

[00:10:52] was the advanced seminar. And the advanced seminar, it starts to get more trippy.

[00:10:58] And that's where there's a lot more blatantly twisted, scriptural, weird stuff

[00:11:08] where you're already bitten enough to go to the second seminar,

[00:11:17] which means that you're already accepting it with a certain level of gravitas.

[00:11:24] And then this is the next level. And then after that, you generally join ATI.

[00:11:33] If you have kids and you want to homeschool. Right.

[00:11:37] And you've got the new family seminar. And then they turn up the heat a little bit more.

[00:11:42] It's not until you really get into the seminars that were designed for the teens and the young adults

[00:11:50] that the really crappy stuff comes.

[00:11:54] So if somebody went to a basic seminar once in the 70s or five times in the 70s, I don't care.

[00:12:01] But especially just once where all they remember is whatever you're going to remember

[00:12:06] from a week long seminar one off. 40 years ago? 40 years ago?

[00:12:11] I'm sorry? I actually am not even sorry, keep your mouth shut.

[00:12:15] Yeah. Right. You know nothing of which you speak.

[00:12:19] No. Nothing.

[00:12:21] We saw the seminar so many times. In our formative years, I was taken at 11 to my first one.

[00:12:28] And my dad kind of snuck me in because you were really supposed to be like 13, 14 before you were really even.

[00:12:34] This was an adult seminar. It was not pitched to children in any way, shape or form.

[00:12:40] I literally scribbled my little hand until it cramped, you know, trying to keep those nuts.

[00:12:49] Notes. When every break they had, I would sit there and copy my dad's notes because I'd be so far behind.

[00:12:56] Any at night when I got home, I would sit and copy his notes. For an adult, this is easy note taking.

[00:13:02] It's straight following what he puts on the screen. It was very, very wrote.

[00:13:07] They wanted you to write stuff down so that you would remember it.

[00:13:11] Because you remember it better and it would go in differently.

[00:13:14] And so they had you writing a lot of it. But for a child that was a lot to write.

[00:13:20] And it hit me differently. And I look back, you know, at those first few seminars, I went to at least three before I was 15.

[00:13:29] Because they just take you back because that was one of the tricks that Bill had with the basic seminar.

[00:13:36] Once you'd been once, you could go back for free.

[00:13:41] It was a way to put butts in the seats. And the more people that were there, the bigger the crowd felt to the more energy in the room.

[00:13:50] It was one of his tricks. And so having alumni there was a way of just like it was another feather in his cap.

[00:13:59] And you could kind of be like, I'm an alumni. Been here before.

[00:14:03] Yeah.

[00:14:04] You know, like, I don't even know. It cracks me up that this worked. But it does.

[00:14:09] It's straight up human nature to be like, yeah, sign me up. I'm in.

[00:14:15] Well, part of the reason that it worked. Here's a little history moment with Kit.

[00:14:23] Part of the reason that it worked is that he started the seminar in the late 60s.

[00:14:30] And then it really got going in the 70s. And in the 70s, there is this social phenomenon in the United States known as to historians as Malays.

[00:14:42] And the 70s were basically, that was the decade of well, we've picked.

[00:14:49] And there's nowhere to go from here. And OPEC is rising our oil prices sky high.

[00:14:59] We have gases over $2 a gallon which was in sync.

[00:15:04] In sync.

[00:15:05] Yeah.

[00:15:06] We have a series of presidents who don't know what they're doing, which was Carter, well meaning, but had no idea what the heck he was doing.

[00:15:15] And then you have Nixon who, hello, do I need to say anything about that? No, I don't.

[00:15:21] Yeah.

[00:15:22] And then followed by Ford who was again just kind of like, yeah.

[00:15:28] So the only president, ladies and gentlemen, who was never elected?

[00:15:34] Look that up if you don't believe me.

[00:15:36] So you have all of these different things, back to back to back to back that are happening that are a really big deal.

[00:15:44] And you've got people who are really just, they become much more interested in the here and now.

[00:15:55] So what is going on right now? What can I do now to make my life more worthwhile?

[00:16:02] That's why you see all of these gyms and weight loss programs coming up in the 70s.

[00:16:07] And also why you see a heck of a lot of cults.

[00:16:11] Yeah.

[00:16:12] Gaining...

[00:16:13] It was the era of the cults.

[00:16:14] A foot-old in the 70s because everything else around them, yes.

[00:16:20] Everything else around them is going, well, we have nothing to live for but today.

[00:16:27] So give me an eternal purpose.

[00:16:30] Give me something that makes me look forward beyond today because everything else I'm seeing sucks.

[00:16:41] So Bill got third, got lucky in that he was really rare and ready to go when the 70s hit.

[00:16:48] And that's when you see him selling out these 40 and 50 and 60,000 people are renaise.

[00:16:54] And then you've got him as kind of a household name around the evangelical circles.

[00:17:02] And then as you get into the late 70s and the early 80s, as the religious right starts to come out of the 70s,

[00:17:12] then you have all of these people who are going, oh, okay.

[00:17:18] Now I'm ready to take this a step further.

[00:17:20] A lot of the people went, eh, it was good for the 70s but I don't really need anything beyond this so I'm out.

[00:17:29] And then you have the other people who are like, oh no, we need to take this a step further.

[00:17:35] And that's where you get the formation of ATI, that's where you get the formation of the extreme right.

[00:17:42] And that's the moral majority.

[00:17:45] The ladies and gentlemen, that's how ATI came to be essentially.

[00:17:50] I was cashing in on this homeschool era that was pioneered by Bob Jones and his ilk.

[00:18:01] And just he stepped into avoid there was no specific homeschooling program for people that were home like curriculum designed for homeschoolers.

[00:18:12] And he's like, hello, here we go.

[00:18:15] He provided the first one, especially in the Uber conservative Christian right that it wasn't here yet.

[00:18:27] Right and not only that but ATI started when homeschooling was illegal in most schools.

[00:18:36] It was illegal in our state until just a couple years before we joined ATI.

[00:18:41] And ATI was in its third year when we joined.

[00:18:44] ATI started when homeschooling was illegal and mostly.

[00:18:47] And it was kind of that, well this is what it is right to learn it.

[00:18:54] I'm going to do it.

[00:18:57] And ATI and homeschooling will defense the situation and Bob Jones and the second later, Rebecca, also that's it to help.

[00:19:09] They'll get up and they're all fundamentalists.

[00:19:13] They're all on the extreme right.

[00:19:16] And there's some sort of intermingling between most of them.

[00:19:24] And if you were in ATI and you were supplementing the wisdom booklets, which again most families did to some extent.

[00:19:40] It was supplementing.

[00:19:43] Right, exactly which most people even the people in the cult recognize you can go back and listen to our episodes on the wisdom booklets.

[00:19:50] It's not an education and any parent would have had an education of their own.

[00:19:56] Even a great education would know that this isn't even teaching reading and writing and basic arithmetic.

[00:20:03] So I'm sorry, but you got to start.

[00:20:06] You got to have something else.

[00:20:08] You just got to have something unless you can just teach it yourself.

[00:20:11] But most parents don't know where to start.

[00:20:13] They're just parents. They're not teachers.

[00:20:16] So most of them are supplementing with a backup and Bob Jones.

[00:20:21] So there's some sort of intermingling between all of them.

[00:20:29] That brings us to the actual trailer for this documentary.

[00:20:40] So yeah, we're like, come here.

[00:20:42] Do you want to watch it?

[00:20:43] Can we start?

[00:20:44] Well, sure.

[00:20:45] Let's go ahead and watch it.

[00:20:47] Okay, ready?

[00:20:48] Five, four, three, two, one.

[00:20:51] Play.

[00:20:53] World domination was the goal.

[00:20:55] If you have not gone through the basics,

[00:20:57] Simitar, I highly recommend it.

[00:20:59] I-B-L-P.

[00:21:00] I-B-L-P.

[00:21:01] I-B-L-P.

[00:21:02] The I-B-L-P teachings aren't Christianity.

[00:21:05] There's something entirely different.

[00:21:07] We have for every one of you the answer.

[00:21:10] Thank you for agreeing to talk to us.

[00:21:12] There's a story that's going to be told and I would rather be the one telling it.

[00:21:16] TLC created a PR show for God third's teachers.

[00:21:21] You've probably heard of the darker family.

[00:21:24] Everyone knew who the family was.

[00:21:26] We were part of I-B-L-P.

[00:21:28] As early as I can remember,

[00:21:29] the biggest feature of real bother to teachings is authority.

[00:21:33] It is obeyed to parents, wives, obeyed to their husbands, everyone.

[00:21:37] It's obeyed to build bothered.

[00:21:39] God third turned every father into a cult leader and every home into an island.

[00:21:45] I first read The Hamming Steel in college.

[00:21:47] I was like, this is my life.

[00:21:49] Home schooling is kind of a linchpin of the school projects.

[00:21:53] The kids were not being bothered.

[00:21:55] Instead of learning math, you're learning slits, David.

[00:21:58] The Institute raises little predators.

[00:22:00] Breaking news, a dark family's secret is exposed.

[00:22:04] It's like the epitome of evil.

[00:22:06] Bricks my heart to think about the girls.

[00:22:09] Well, how deep do we go?

[00:22:10] Because that's a rabbit hole.

[00:22:12] I am.

[00:22:14] This is much bigger than the duggers.

[00:22:16] You give these kids training in political engagement.

[00:22:20] From there you send them into the halls of Congress, into the White House,

[00:22:25] as interns.

[00:22:28] They're playing the long game.

[00:22:31] What is going on here?

[00:22:33] The shiny, happy images is the shutter.

[00:22:36] We're all high on it.

[00:22:37] They were just deceiving us all.

[00:22:39] The real story is a much bigger one.

[00:22:43] Now is the time.

[00:22:45] No.

[00:22:53] Wow.

[00:22:56] Whoever did that trailer, let me say they're not making enough money.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:05] I heard that part of the production team did that documentary on Amazon, The Lula Rich.

[00:23:12] They cut their teeth on that, I guess.

[00:23:18] Which Lula Rich was done so well?

[00:23:21] I enjoyed it.

[00:23:23] I'm not a huge documentary watcher but when I...

[00:23:27] A good one comes along, I really enjoy it.

[00:23:32] That's hard to watch.

[00:23:34] The footage of Michael Pearl, the spanking thing is quite heavy.

[00:23:39] That was the thing that got me...

[00:23:42] Every time it's like this role.

[00:23:45] I know, at no point during the rest of it was, I particularly really triggered.

[00:23:53] I just kind of went through them and was like, yep, yep, yep.

[00:23:56] Wow, yep.

[00:23:58] But then for just a second.

[00:24:02] Even just got there on the screen though gave me a harder time than I thought he would.

[00:24:06] He got really good shots of his smirk and his self-importance.

[00:24:12] I think that's awesome.

[00:24:14] Yeah.

[00:24:15] It was a little much, little more than I expected.

[00:24:19] It was just amazing to me because as soon as Michael Pearl comes on, and it's literally a second.

[00:24:26] If you blink, you miss it.

[00:24:29] And it's showing him spanking that doll that he took with him everywhere.

[00:24:37] It's like the size of a three-year-old.

[00:24:40] Right, and I've seen him speak in person, I think twice.

[00:24:44] And he's the reason that my parents started spanking me again at 13

[00:24:50] and kept spanking me until the summer, I've freaking turned 20.

[00:24:55] And that is the part that's still...

[00:25:00] It's hard.

[00:25:01] Oh, God.

[00:25:02] It's not an open-ended...

[00:25:04] Because it turns our parents from just...

[00:25:08] Yeah, run of the mill evangelicals and then...

[00:25:12] Well, and even just spiritual and emotional abusers into physical abusers.

[00:25:17] Right.

[00:25:18] And that's a big line to cross.

[00:25:21] And negligibly sexual abusers, when you get to the point that you're a teenager...

[00:25:28] Yeah.

[00:25:29] There's a lot there.

[00:25:31] There's a lot of stuff that comes up from that.

[00:25:36] Yeah, Michael Pearl was not in ATI.

[00:25:40] He was adjacent and popular.

[00:25:43] And his books were sold at our events.

[00:25:48] And I met him in a much smaller environment.

[00:25:52] I met him in a home.

[00:25:54] He was speaking at a home church, and I was there.

[00:25:57] And I met him in person.

[00:25:58] But my dad went to...

[00:26:00] When I was about...

[00:26:03] I want to say 17, 18.

[00:26:05] My dad went to some sort of home school conference.

[00:26:10] And Michael Pearl was giving that exact speech with the spanking.

[00:26:16] And he said, I can't take it.

[00:26:20] I remember him coming home and being like, I just couldn't stand in that room another minute.

[00:26:27] Yeah, that was too much.

[00:26:30] Too far.

[00:26:32] But yeah.

[00:26:33] It's very...

[00:26:35] It's all so...

[00:26:37] It's a lot to see your cult.

[00:26:41] Like that.

[00:26:43] Right out front.

[00:26:45] Yeah, it's one thing to have it here and there.

[00:26:54] And it's Heather Heasbook comes out or as...

[00:26:58] It's different people on free-spoke posts about whatever.

[00:27:02] Tiktok reels about it or whatever.

[00:27:05] Right, like...

[00:27:06] But when it comes into the mainstream news, which is about the fourth time this has happened now,

[00:27:12] it's impossible to escape.

[00:27:15] You can't go fill your gas tank and go into the gas station store without seeing in touch or people or something like that.

[00:27:27] And not just with pictures of the duggers, but with pictures of Bill Gawthert.

[00:27:32] Or pictures of various curricula that he came up with over the years.

[00:27:38] All of these different things that...

[00:27:40] In my news...

[00:27:41] Help to make your trauma.

[00:27:42] Like I have news alerts on my phone and I follow like people magazine or whatever.

[00:27:48] And a news alert popped up for this.

[00:27:51] There's the Dugger family is exposed in a new docky series on Amazon.

[00:27:58] And blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:59] Now she's like, oh my gosh.

[00:28:01] This is like it told me.

[00:28:03] It's so mainstream everywhere.

[00:28:06] It's a lot.

[00:28:07] It's just a lot to process.

[00:28:09] I mean, I will be totally honest.

[00:28:13] It's really vindicating and it feels good to know that this is getting exposed

[00:28:19] and the people that are involved are friends of mine, dear, dear friends.

[00:28:23] Obviously we've had head of their heat on this episode on this podcast.

[00:28:27] If you haven't heard her episode, you've got to go listen to it.

[00:28:30] It's awesome.

[00:28:31] She was one of our first guests of her.

[00:28:33] Yeah.

[00:28:34] We just...

[00:28:35] She's in an individual level.

[00:28:36] Oh yeah.

[00:28:37] She and I are great friends and I just think the world of her she's involved

[00:28:40] and many others that are good friends and that are coming to mind as well.

[00:28:47] And I'm just so proud of them for the work that they did, the extreme amount of

[00:28:58] just personal peril.

[00:29:00] I mean, this is not without risk going to these places in our memories,

[00:29:07] going to it and re...

[00:29:09] pulling it all back up and retelling it for public consumption.

[00:29:14] It's massive and yes, we do it here on this podcast and Kathleen and I have been

[00:29:21] through a lot in making this podcast.

[00:29:23] It has taken more out of us than we ever imagined.

[00:29:27] We started out, you know, with fear and trepidation.

[00:29:33] I mean we walked into this carefully.

[00:29:35] We weren't cavalier about it.

[00:29:37] Both of us knew it was going to be hard but what we ended up dredging up and having to process

[00:29:44] their counseling and therapy, I mean obviously life through us carpefriars in the meantime too

[00:29:48] so it's not like this was it but it's a lot.

[00:29:52] It's a lot to do.

[00:29:55] And yet we're willing to do it and our dear friends are willing to do it in this

[00:30:00] documentary and we're proud and honored to know them and to have held their

[00:30:07] stories before now.

[00:30:10] And we are grateful to all of you who listen to us and keep coming back

[00:30:18] to our podcast and just sit and listen.

[00:30:23] I mean, just for being willing to listen to our story is huge and I don't know how to

[00:30:28] say that other than to just say that.

[00:30:30] We are really grateful to you guys and are just honored that you came along with us.

[00:30:38] We will be right back with more of our discussion in just a moment.

[00:30:48] What is it you want to meet direct in Sun Mass out too?

[00:30:51] I was born here almost 60 years ago.

[00:30:54] I'm not going to live another 60 years.

[00:30:56] You always told me it takes time.

[00:30:58] It's taking my father's time, my mother's time, my uncle's time.

[00:31:02] My brother's in my sister's time, my niece's in my nephew's time.

[00:31:06] How much time do you want for your progress?

[00:31:10] I hate you, naturally.

[00:31:15] And I hate black people.

[00:31:17] Things are going to get worse before they get better.

[00:31:19] What is presented to me as an American does not look like me because you're not allowed

[00:31:26] to be a black man in corporate America.

[00:31:28] You give us a hard time for being white, being American and being in control.

[00:31:31] And when you live under a situation like that constantly,

[00:31:34] and then you ask me whether I approve of violence,

[00:31:39] I mean, that just doesn't make any sense at all.

[00:31:42] Yeah, there's a lot of crazy stuff happening right now.

[00:31:45] And you know what?

[00:31:46] We need a space where we can debrief some of it and deconstruct.

[00:31:50] If you've been looking for a POC-centered podcast that engages with intersectionality, religion,

[00:31:56] critical race theory, and some hip-hop culture, then you need to check out Profane Faith.

[00:32:01] I'll be your host, Daniel Whitehodge, and we go in every other week.

[00:32:05] So check us out wherever you find your podcasts or check us out at whitehodgepodcast.com

[00:32:11] to see what other platforms we're on.

[00:32:14] Cool? I...peace!

[00:32:17] Hey everyone, I'm Nate from the Full Mutuality Podcast.

[00:32:27] I wanted to take a moment to say thank you for tuning into this show.

[00:32:31] We're so grateful that you've decided to spend your time with us.

[00:32:34] Seriously, Dan, Gail, Jessica, Kathleen, Scott, and the rest of us here at the

[00:32:39] Dauntless Media Collective couldn't produce content like the show you're listening to without your support.

[00:32:44] I'd also like to invite you even further into the conversation.

[00:32:48] Right now, there are some great discussions happening over in the Dauntless Media Collective Discord server.

[00:32:53] If you're interested in chatting with other folks who are deconstructing and decolonizing

[00:32:57] the oppressive traditions that they came from, please feel free to hop on into the server.

[00:33:02] If you don't know what Discord is, it's a place where communities can gather online

[00:33:06] for chatting on a wide variety of topics.

[00:33:09] In our Discord server, we have channels devoted to general deconstruction conversations,

[00:33:14] some meme sharing, therapeutic venting about whatever religious bullshit you're currently dealing with,

[00:33:19] and even a channel specifically devoted to talking about the latest episodes

[00:33:22] of the podcast you're listening to right now.

[00:33:25] I hope you'll join us. You can log in directly to the Dauntless server by clicking the link in the show notes

[00:33:30] or heading to dauntless.fm and clicking the link in the top banner.

[00:33:34] See you there.

[00:33:41] We do also really like it when we get messages saying,

[00:33:46] is the podcast over? Are you doing more episodes because that shows that you care?

[00:33:51] It means a lot. We've gotten some great messages.

[00:33:54] And we are working on new content. Dauntless is thriving.

[00:33:59] If you haven't been over to dauntless.fm to check out the other podcasts that have joined us

[00:34:07] since we launched Dauntless with just full mutuality and us,

[00:34:13] it is so exciting what's happening over there.

[00:34:16] And there are so many fun conversations happening on our Discord server.

[00:34:21] If you are not in that Discord server, please do go check it out.

[00:34:28] Yes. Dauntless Media Collective, it is a really happening place

[00:34:34] and cool conversations going on there. And we just love our Dauntless team.

[00:34:40] It has really become a special special place for us.

[00:34:44] So we're still involved. We're still here.

[00:34:48] We've got more content coming.

[00:34:51] So what our plan is, we're going to release this episode and you guys can know that we are aware

[00:35:00] there is a docuseries dropping about our cults. And we are on it.

[00:35:05] In fact, we are going to watch it.

[00:35:08] And we're going to record an episode for each episode of the docuseries.

[00:35:16] I think there's like four or five episodes, four episodes that are dropping on June 2nd.

[00:35:23] And we're going to watch them and we are going to record our reactions to that

[00:35:28] and we will bring it to you.

[00:35:32] So if you're curious how all this is hitting us, which things we remember,

[00:35:37] what it's bringing up for us more behind the scenes of what they're talking about.

[00:35:43] If you're watching the series and you're like, wait, wait, wait, what is this? I don't understand that.

[00:35:48] We got you. This is where you need to come because we're going to clarify everything.

[00:35:53] We're going to explain the background behind the stuff that you wouldn't necessarily grasp

[00:36:00] if you're not a part of ATI or weren't in the eras that we were.

[00:36:06] So you've got to check this out.

[00:36:09] We'll throw in time stamps and stuff like that, too, so that if you're not sure what we're talking about,

[00:36:14] you can go right to it.

[00:36:17] And we may know promises but we may end up having some YouTuber TikTok clips

[00:36:26] because we're planning on...

[00:36:29] We're planning on watching it together and recording...

[00:36:33] I mean, obviously, just as in Texas and I'm in Ohio but we're planning on...

[00:36:38] ...setting up...

[00:36:40] ...setting up our video cameras and videoing our reactions.

[00:36:46] I was really bummed after I watched the trailer.

[00:36:50] And I went to message back my friend who had sent it to me and I was just...

[00:36:56] I realized that it hit me so much harder than I expected.

[00:37:01] I was excited about this but I didn't know the feelings that were going to come up

[00:37:06] and I really wished I had just recorded my face while I watched it.

[00:37:11] And been able to process afterwards what I saw on my face

[00:37:17] because I couldn't come up with words.

[00:37:20] Like, I literally wrote him back, I don't have words and I don't know why.

[00:37:23] I can't respond to this adequately.

[00:37:27] There's just so many feelings all jumbled up

[00:37:30] and each scene has different things.

[00:37:33] And yes, my husband and I watched it together

[00:37:37] because I ran into the living room which is where he works.

[00:37:41] He was like, what?

[00:37:43] And I was like, hold on, I'll show you something.

[00:37:46] And so I brought it up and he was like, oh!

[00:37:50] And I played it and he said that I had pretty much the same expression

[00:37:58] on my face the whole time except when Michael Pearl came on the screen.

[00:38:03] And when afterwards, when I said, okay,

[00:38:07] the only real, this oral reaction I had was that guy.

[00:38:12] He was like the guy who is spanking the doll.

[00:38:14] He kept me off and it was like, yeah.

[00:38:16] And he said, yeah, that's not surprising but he was like, you flinched.

[00:38:23] And that's just what I've been interesting to get that on.

[00:38:28] I think there were so many different emotions on my face,

[00:38:31] like micro emotions.

[00:38:33] I just kind of wish I'd had like right there.

[00:38:35] So I kind of want to do that.

[00:38:37] I want to set cameras up because I think it will give me more insight later

[00:38:42] because I can go back and watch it and just get an idea of what's going on.

[00:38:46] We may put some of that footage in our Patreon

[00:38:49] because we haven't used our Patreon as much.

[00:38:52] And we could do, we've been terrible.

[00:38:54] I know and we can do that and we can provide that on Patreon

[00:38:59] and people can kind of watch that stuff.

[00:39:02] But there will be clips and there will be TikToks.

[00:39:05] We're going to work on it.

[00:39:07] I have my Go Forth Boldly TikTok account that I'm not using much.

[00:39:12] So...

[00:39:13] And I have one as well which I will,

[00:39:17] I can't remember the exact handle.

[00:39:20] It's called Kit has EDS.

[00:39:24] Like Kit underscore has underscore EDS.

[00:39:27] I think that's what it is.

[00:39:29] I talk mostly about my journey with Ailer Sandler Syndrome

[00:39:32] but I have talked a little bit about my life as a cult survivor as well.

[00:39:38] So...

[00:39:39] Yeah.

[00:39:40] So we will tackle more of that stuff.

[00:39:43] We're excited to launch again

[00:39:47] or the drop, the episodes drop on June 2nd.

[00:39:51] So watch for that.

[00:39:54] Run over to Amazon Prime and check out the documentary.

[00:39:58] If you haven't already,

[00:40:00] the trailer for the documentary.

[00:40:02] You can just hit the add to my watch list

[00:40:06] and you can add it so that it's ready to go when it drops

[00:40:10] so you don't have to go looking for it.

[00:40:12] Shining happy people.

[00:40:14] Dougher family secrets on Amazon Prime.

[00:40:17] Can we talk for half a second about the title?

[00:40:20] Yes, please do.

[00:40:22] So yeah.

[00:40:23] It comes from a B-52 song called Shining Happy People.

[00:40:27] And...

[00:40:29] I didn't even know that at first because I'm not the biggest fan of the B-52.

[00:40:35] I'm not saying they're bad.

[00:40:37] I don't even know who they are so...

[00:40:39] Um...

[00:40:40] Okay.

[00:40:41] Let's be...

[00:40:42] Really?

[00:40:43] You've won't get more girls.

[00:40:44] There's a whole bit on that.

[00:40:45] Oh, anyway.

[00:40:46] Yeah.

[00:40:47] I just...

[00:40:48] We connect those dots, you know.

[00:40:51] Okay.

[00:40:52] Um...

[00:40:53] I've watched Gilmar Girls through about 30 times.

[00:40:56] Right.

[00:40:57] You would train that way.

[00:40:58] Anyway.

[00:40:59] They're right.

[00:41:00] So, um...

[00:41:03] As soon as I saw it, you know,

[00:41:05] I didn't know that it was a song title

[00:41:07] but I was just like that is the perfect title.

[00:41:13] It could not have been more perfect because that's what we were supposed to be.

[00:41:18] Is we're literally supposed to radiate, like God's truth.

[00:41:24] I don't even want to say God's love because not really.

[00:41:27] That's right.

[00:41:28] But the fruit of walking in God's righteousness so to speak,

[00:41:34] we were supposed to...

[00:41:35] We were walking P.R.

[00:41:38] A campaign for...

[00:41:39] Right, we're supposed to have a radiant countance.

[00:41:42] And so, we were literally supposed to be shiny

[00:41:44] and we were supposed to be happy.

[00:41:47] Like, we were supposed to be smiling all of the time.

[00:41:50] We've talked before about how there were specific kinds of smiles in ACI

[00:41:56] that we were expected to have.

[00:41:59] And there were specific rules about you're supposed to smile

[00:42:07] for three seconds after you passed somebody.

[00:42:11] That was an actual rule and there are actual reasons laid out for said rule.

[00:42:17] We were supposed to radiate happiness

[00:42:21] and we were supposed to radiate the...

[00:42:24] The happiness.

[00:42:25] Shining and shodd-

[00:42:26] Whatever God's count was part of.

[00:42:28] Right.

[00:42:29] Our ministry was supposed to be part of our ministry.

[00:42:33] Yeah.

[00:42:34] And so, the consequences of that are very far reaching.

[00:42:39] The impact when you're in so young as I was...

[00:42:45] It's just immeasurable.

[00:42:48] And at such a pivotal point in your life which I was?

[00:42:51] Yeah.

[00:42:52] Oh yeah.

[00:42:53] For sure.

[00:42:54] I wasn't necessarily raised in it, but I was dropped in it when I was 13

[00:42:58] and dear God do we want to talk about all of the changes psychologically

[00:43:03] that are taking place in your life at 13?

[00:43:06] I know.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:08] 13 to 22 for any of that random age that they wanted.

[00:43:12] No, exactly.

[00:43:13] They were treated for...

[00:43:15] They looked for families with kids that age because that was got third's ideal age.

[00:43:22] Or straight up.

[00:43:23] I had a therapist.

[00:43:24] I had a therapist when say that for brainwashing and mental conditioning, they could not have picked

[00:43:34] a better, more impactful nine years of my life.

[00:43:39] For sure.

[00:43:40] But for like, physically speaking, it's not possible to have picked a better nine years

[00:43:46] and that's exactly when I was dropped in.

[00:43:49] 100%.

[00:43:50] 100%.

[00:43:51] So yeah, it's a lot.

[00:43:56] We are excited.

[00:43:57] I mean, in a really poignant way, I don't know what other way to describe it.

[00:44:08] We're excited.

[00:44:09] We're looking forward to watching it and I know you'll enjoy it as our listeners.

[00:44:14] It will definitely provide more context for all of the things we've been describing.

[00:44:19] If you're cold, you know, you're just coming into this recommended by a friend or you have

[00:44:26] found us through looking through true crime or cult podcasts and you've found us and

[00:44:33] you're like, I've been fascinated by all of this but I don't know what I'm looking at.

[00:44:37] This is going to be it.

[00:44:38] This is your moment to see what to actually see at all.

[00:44:44] And we'll be here to talk about how it's impacting us, how it's hitting us and we're

[00:44:50] so excited to do this with you.

[00:44:52] We have missed you guys a lot.

[00:44:55] Absolutely.

[00:44:56] And we've picked up new listeners that we haven't really – I don't feel like we've adequately

[00:45:00] interacted with for years and…

[00:45:03] Right.

[00:45:04] We've had a lot of – we had a spike last fall into early this year that we didn't expect

[00:45:13] but we will eventually address why we've been gone and all of that, but just know like

[00:45:21] we wouldn't have been gone if we didn't have to be.

[00:45:24] We've had some real traumas and real serious things that have needed taken care of and

[00:45:34] that were on the upside of those at this point.

[00:45:39] But just know that there was a time there where both Jess and I were in the weeds at the

[00:45:47] same time.

[00:45:48] And that's the story.

[00:45:52] So we're just grateful to be still here, still kicking, doing well.

[00:46:00] And we're still kicking.

[00:46:01] Doing well now, proud of the work that we've done, both of us have done a lot of hard work

[00:46:07] that we're really proud of.

[00:46:10] And you know, just ready for the next stage of our lives and ready for the next stage

[00:46:16] of podcasting, we are – both of us are eyeing with great excitement and enthusiasm.

[00:46:24] So we're excited to have you guys come along for this viewing of shiny happy people dropping

[00:46:32] June 2nd.

[00:46:35] So come along with us.

[00:46:37] We're looking forward to having you.

[00:46:40] And I think that's going to wrap us up for today.

[00:46:43] Sounds good.

[00:46:44] Alright, we have been so honored to reconnect with all of you and we will see you next time

[00:46:53] on Leaving the Village.

[00:46:54] Bye!

[00:46:55] Bye!

[00:46:56] And that wraps up another episode of Leaving the Village.

[00:47:00] If you haven't already, hit subscribe so you get our episodes as soon as they drop.

[00:47:05] Also, check out our social media pages at Leaving the Village pod on Instagram as well as

[00:47:10] Facebook.

[00:47:11] We will post behind-the-scenes photos, links to more information and sneak peeks at upcoming

[00:47:17] guests.

[00:47:18] Message us with your stories and you might be featured on a future episode.

[00:47:22] Also, if you love the show, rate and comment on your favorite podcast platform.

[00:47:28] It really helps a lot.

[00:47:30] Speaking of helping us, just listening and sharing our podcast with others is the best

[00:47:34] way you can support us.

[00:47:36] But if you want to do more, we also have a Patreon where you can contribute financially.

[00:47:40] It all helps us keep bringing Leaving the Village to you.

[00:47:45] Our show is written and produced by me, Jessica Goforth and Kathleen Reynolds.

[00:47:50] Clicked by Les FM from Pixabay.

[00:47:53] Cover art by Nate Nackau.

[00:47:55] Special thanks to our families who are so supportive of this show and to you, our fans!

[00:48:00] Thank you so much and see you next time on Leaving the Village.

[00:48:11] This is Adontless Media Collective Podcast.

[00:48:14] Visit dotless.ethm for more content.