S2 E2: Religious Black Sheep with Katrina Ford

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit Dauntless.fm for more content.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I got to watch my own family hurt and shun another African American woman. The very people

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_06]: that they came to serve were the very people that they shunned, and they shunned her because

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_06]: of her love. That is the most insane thing I have ever seen.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello deconstructionists, this is Maggie, the host of our podcast, where we'll collectively

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_04]: share our stories and experiences of leaving high control religion along with what it's

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_04]: been like for us to find new practices that help us feel good and confident in ourselves.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that hearing these stories reminds you that your deconstruction is valid and

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_04]: most of all that you are not alone on this journey. You are good, you are loved, and

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: you are worthy just as you are. Hello deconstructionists.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_04]: My guest today is Katrina Ford. Katrina is a motivational speaker and life coach that

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_04]: specializes in religious trauma, academic sabotage, and good girl syndrome. Katrina

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_04]: is such a force to be reckoned with and I'm so excited for you all to hear her

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_04]: story. So Katrina, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for having me, Maggie. This is so exciting.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I listened to Katrina's story on another podcast and it was so moving and I just

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't wait for you all to hear it. So Katrina, let's jump right in. Can you

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_04]: tell us about your church experience, which is rich and this will take us many

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_04]: places. So I'll let you take it away.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, definitely. Okay, so my story starts as an African orphan in Africa, in

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_06]: East Africa. I was an orphan for six months and my American missionary family

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_06]: moved to Africa in 1999, adopted me and adopted another African child at the

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_06]: same time and we became a family of seven children and we grew up on the

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_06]: the same family for many years. My dad was a pastor, but I never really saw him

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_06]: on stage preaching. I saw him on the mission field in villages and mud huts,

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_06]: serving people and things started to change around the age of 18 years old. I

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_06]: grew up with a rare eye disease, but we didn't know what was going on and we

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_06]: were in a very remote part of Africa where it can actually be very dangerous

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_06]: and we did not know the language. We would just stay in our compound which

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_06]: is the perimeter is just thorn bushes covering your side and then a big

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_06]: metal gate and people would come and throw dust on our gate and like do

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_06]: witchcraft and throw curses on our gate because they didn't want us there

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_06]: because our family stood out because the majority of my family is white and

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_06]: then they had just a couple of African kids and so our family really

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_06]: stood out and then my mom had depression from a very young age. That

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_06]: was my memory of my mom is that she had depression and the saying would be

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_06]: and it would be mom sleeping. And so I grew up a good girl which is why I am

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_06]: a good girl syndrome life coach and I love dissecting why I do what I do now

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_06]: because what I went through as a child in academic sabotage and severe

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_06]: religious abuse was formed so good girl syndrome was formed through academic

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_06]: sabotage and religious abuse. So bottom line I grew up with a mom who had

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_06]: depression and I didn't see her for long long periods of time because

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_06]: she was sleeping all day and because we're missionaries and mommy isn't

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_06]: there and I had a rare eye disease I had school pushed on the back burner

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_06]: and filled the shoes of a mom and because this pleased my family and

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_06]: especially this pleased my parents who also are missionaries and pastors if it

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_06]: pleases my parents then it must please God. And so I thought that my

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Christianity was based on pleasing my parents and so I lived this lifestyle

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_06]: until the age of 18 years old and then actually I think about just a few

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_06]: weeks before I turned 18 I had the opportunity to come to America and go

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_06]: to a Christian music camp in Nashville and that is when scales fell from my eyes

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_06]: the missionary bubble popped the good girl syndrome lifestyle popped and I

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_06]: realized there was so much more to life and so I met all of these girls

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_06]: my age but they carried themselves so differently and what's really

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_06]: potent is my brother there's such a big age gap in our family we're

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_06]: finally a family of eight children but the age gap is really crazy so my

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_06]: brother who is 11 years older than me took me out to coffee and he started

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_06]: questioning what my role was in the family and at the age of 18 he said

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_06]: what grade are you in? And I couldn't answer him. At the age of 18 years

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_06]: old I could not answer what grade I was in didn't know what my GPA was

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_06]: didn't know what my grades were had no clue and then he said you know every time

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_06]: that we Skype you you're cooking meals and dad is applauding you what is

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_06]: going on? And where was your brother at the time? Yeah so at the time my

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_06]: family was scattered everywhere I had a sibling in Ireland a sibling in the

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_06]: UK and then this brother who was questioning my role was in America

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_04]: at the time okay yeah and when you say questioning your role he's sort of

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_06]: looking out for you yeah yes okay yeah so I went home and this is the drum

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_06]: roll in my memoir that I'm writing called religious black sheep which is

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_06]: such an intense raw and beautiful book that I've been working on for a

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_06]: really long time but anyway I get on the plane and little do I know that

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_06]: all of the women 18 year old women that I met at music camp were going

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_06]: to college as 18 year olds and I was flying back to Africa as an 18 year old

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_06]: to start ninth grade and had absolutely no idea how does that happen? How does

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_06]: that actually happen? And so I've been diving and dissecting and exploring and

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_06]: writing and I realized good girl syndrome is a formula and it is sit

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_06]: stay submit serve and be silent and as long as you do that you will be safe in

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_06]: the religious community and so that's what I had done all of those years

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_06]: also oh this is so juicy I hope I don't slaughter it but for my next

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_06]: book which is about good girl syndrome I want to add a little note on the

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_06]: is that and that is that's not like in the real world that's just in cult-like

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_06]: systems high demand religion and in abusive households why that is is

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_06]: because a girl can be controlled but a woman challenges that authority that

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_06]: the abuser wants over them and so why Katrina was 18 and didn't know that

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_06]: she was in ninth grade was because I was trained to operate as a 12 year

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_06]: old at all times wow yeah I was trained to operate as a 12 year old so this is

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_06]: where it gets pretty spicy I get home and I start asking a lot of questions

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_06]: and nothing is being answered so I go to my Christian mentor and I said hey

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_06]: can I have permission this is super interesting the 18 year old is asking

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_06]: her mentor for permission to call a doctor and get answers so I call a

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_06]: psychologist and she's like yeah this is not okay this is abuse this is

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_06]: neglect you are going through something called parentification where

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_06]: your parents have trained you to fill the role that they were supposed to

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_06]: play and then that opened my eyes to where I was in school and when my

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_06]: parents found out everything collapsed and I became the sinful daughter the

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_06]: wayward daughter the daughter that was no longer in right relationship

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_06]: with God and then the mission field got involved because the therapist took it

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_06]: to the mission field I have to make this very clear if a missionary family

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_06]: was dealing with the extreme psychological mental unhealthy system

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_06]: that was going on in our family you would not be on the mission field

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_06]: because the health of your family comes before the mission field you

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_06]: cannot serve other people if your family is not getting what they need

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_06]: first and I was the one that called I was the one that blew that whistle and

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_06]: my parents were in denial and so who are you gonna believe the African

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_06]: adopted daughter who is 18 and in ninth grade or the white missionary

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_06]: pastors that have been on the mission field for 20 years so they

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_06]: played their game yeah they played their game really well and the

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_06]: mission field believed them and that is when severe religious abuse and

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_06]: academic sabotage came boiling up to the surface and I say in the book this

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_06]: is when I started army crawling through my education dodging spiritual

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_06]: bombs of warfare and I know that sounds dramatic and someone might roll

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_06]: their eyes but that is really how severe it was I had meetings with my

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_06]: parents to go what grade am I in what classes are qualified as high school I

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_06]: need to know what I have done and what I haven't done so I can graduate and so

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_06]: my mom was my school supervisor then my dad played the principal and so

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_06]: they were in control of all of this and what's really interesting is

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Katrina what actually is academic sabotage I will give some examples

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_06]: when your academic provider gets angry at you for asking questions about your

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_06]: own education when you ask for paperwork to clarify where you are and

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_06]: proof of what you've studied and they manipulate you that is academic

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_06]: sabotage and so it was really strategic what would happen in those

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_06]: meetings is my parents would fall apart and they would switch roles with

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_06]: me they would become the child and I would become the parent so even

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I am the student trying to get her needs met I was forced to play an adult

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_06]: well my parents quickly turned into children having religious temper tantrums

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_06]: because when I asked for my needs to be met and when I had boundaries it made

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_06]: them feel like they were losing their spiritual control and so when an

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_06]: academic provider makes you feel like you no longer are a Christian because

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_06]: take your education seriously that also is another form of academic and religious

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_06]: abuse and so in those four years that should have been spent doing high

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_06]: school I did Bible classes cooking dancing and one very impressive thing

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_06]: five years of opera music with a German opera singer in Africa which is

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_06]: so awesome but still I was only getting what is it like the arts and electives

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_06]: and so many credits for Bible class that it's not even funny you can't

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_06]: graduate on Bible classes and so I say this I know I say this in the book

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_06]: basically in order to survive in my household you had to do education mom

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_06]: which meant a five-year degree in Bible in edge in Bible education in Bible

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_06]: understanding but then in order to live in this real world where you get a job

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_06]: and go to college you will also be expected to get a four-year degree in

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_06]: high school courses and so this drains the student to no end this will

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_06]: not hurt the academic provider but it absolutely burns out the student and so

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_06]: not only are you dealing with bullying in school but you're dealing with an

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_06]: abusive academic provider and no one knows because they kept looking at my

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_06]: parents as these gods and then of course we didn't know that I had this

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_06]: rare eye disease and so just spoil alert the day that I graduated I found

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_06]: out that I have a rare disease called Eilers Danlos syndrome and Pots syndrome

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not very good at explaining it so y'all can Google it if you want but it

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_06]: does cause the tissue in your body to be weak and stretched out and so my

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_06]: eye muscles were very weak and I would get fatigued and dizzy and that

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_06]: on top of the consistency of the abuse made it very difficult so in the

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_06]: CDC chapters about academic sabotage I say I got used to doing school about

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_06]: 65 hours of school a week I didn't know what a weekend was I did not know

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_06]: what a holiday was I remember my youth leader who's actually a doctor sat me

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_06]: down at a coffee date and she calculates how many months of break I

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_06]: owe myself because of the severity that I was pushing myself on and then

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I started at an online Christian missionary high school which actually

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_06]: forces you to get work done and I was obsessed with seeing the green tick as

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_06]: soon as you got an assignment done the green tick would come and it's like

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_06]: great week two is done great week three is done I was in ninth grade

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_06]: algebra at the age of 19 yeah at the age of 19 years old and I finished a

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_06]: whole year of ninth grade English in 35 days and never once did the actual

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_06]: professional teachers abuse me or shame me or question me for where I was

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_06]: which is so fascinating to me because you would think oh academic sabotage

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_06]: so you must mean the teachers are abusing you but it never was the

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_06]: teachers that actually was the academic provider in the household and

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_06]: so when I couldn't please my family I thought well I don't deserve to eat

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_06]: your food so I would start starving myself and then after I got 65 hours of

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_06]: work done I would fall in my bed and collapse for about three days and I

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_06]: wouldn't be able to function and one day I couldn't get out of bed like

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_06]: a good girl and cook my family dinner and my dad marches into my room

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_06]: and he says why aren't you making dinner and I was stuttering and

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_06]: hyperventilating and I said dad I'm not functioning is there any way that

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_06]: could go and get therapy and he said how dare you say that we need therapy if

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_06]: anybody needs help it is you you you're the problem we've been on the

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_06]: mission field for 20 years how dare you and I remember it's a miracle that

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_06]: I wasn't hospitalized at that time and I also went back in the book and I

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_06]: added a little bit more why wasn't I hospitalized because good girls try to

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_06]: suck it in and if I had been hospitalized that would have brought

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_06]: more attention to the family and then also money would have been used and on

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_06]: the mission field I wonder if this is actually someone confirmed it for me you

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_06]: know we grow up with parents going oh we don't talk about finances in front

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_06]: of our kids but on the mission field that is very different because my

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_06]: parents are white the African understanding was white people have

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_06]: money and so they turned it into this whole kind of thing of part of

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_06]: your mission was giving money like it grew on trees and so money was a

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_06]: topic every single day and I'll put a Kenyan accent on for you but oh this

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_06]: African is asking for money and this child needs money for a school and

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_06]: this this mama needs money for this and this person needs money for this

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_06]: and we must do this because this is God's will and caring is sharing and

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_06]: sharing is caring and so if you are if you are raised to be this severe

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_06]: good girl you're not gonna bring attention to yourself and I was like

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_06]: we can't afford for me to be hospitalized but technically I should

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_06]: have been and so my dad called that brother that questioned where I was in

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_06]: school and this is super important for where we're about to go but he he

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_06]: called that brother and he said we are so concerned about Katrina we don't

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_06]: think she is in right relationship with God and we don't think that we

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_06]: spanked her enough yeah and where I was at the time was I was in bed not

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_06]: functioning I couldn't get out of bed and what's really fascinating is he

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_06]: served my mom on bended knee at her bedside we didn't have like a mom

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_06]: figure for several years but when you saw your African adopted daughter

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_06]: struggling with depression it was considered not in right relationship

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_06]: with God and we just needed a couple more excuses to spank her as a child

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_06]: so she wouldn't be this sinful that alone would make someone not want to be

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_04]: a Christian do you think they viewed you differently like he viewed you

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_04]: differently than your mom because you were African or adopted or do you think

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_06]: it was more because you were a child um but then I mean at the time I was

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_06]: 19 right but you're not really a child yeah yeah I it's interesting

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_06]: moving back to America in 2020 on a COVID evacuation airplane when people

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_06]: hear my story they say the same thing and I think I am starting to lean

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_06]: towards that area that it is you're the African you're the adopted child so

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_06]: how dare you cause more problems because we already saved you from

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_06]: hardship and from poverty and so you're supposed to be good because I

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_06]: will say this I want to say this carefully but like just having all of

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_06]: these aha moments as you are deconstructing and trying to make sense

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_06]: of the trauma there was another white female in our family who struggled with

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_06]: depression and she wasn't treated the same way that I was there was never a

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_06]: question of oh my goodness we didn't spank her enough and she's not in

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_06]: right relationship with God so yes I do think it could have something to do

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_04]: with being the African adopted daughter when you were on the mission field so

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna back up for just a second when your parents adopted you they were

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_04]: already missionaries like they went to Africa to be missionaries did they

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_04]: adopt you from the same place that they were being missionaries yeah so

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_06]: they came to Africa in 1999 and the same year is when they adopted me

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_06]: and they adopted me in the same city that they were doing mission work in

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_04]: okay so what did it feel like for you and maybe there was so much more

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_04]: isolation and whatnot that that you didn't feel this as much or maybe it's

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_04]: more that like you can look back and see some of this this stuff but what

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_04]: did it feel like for you to be an African there in Africa with a

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_04]: family that's like behind this gate and the people in Africa are like we

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_04]: don't want you here but you're like but I was born here like what did it feel

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_04]: like to be in this white family there as they're doing like missionary work

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and probably some white saviorism I'm assuming but maybe not anyway well

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_06]: that you talk oh that is so interesting no I got a lot of

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_06]: attention for it and I don't even think it was racism when we were at

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_06]: the grocery store people would stare at us but it wasn't like hatred

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_06]: it was more curiosity and not understanding like we don't understand

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_06]: your parents are white but you are black we just don't understand and then

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_06]: it would open conversations of like yeah but like I was adopted in their

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_06]: heart and it was positive for the first 18 years and then when the abuse

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_06]: started coming out and oh this is big looking at my parents ministry a lot

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_06]: what they did was providing finances for African kids in the villages hours and

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_06]: hours and hours away finding money for them or giving some of their own

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_06]: money to finance kids in villages to go to school so why would you sabotage

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_06]: your own African adopted daughter's education that is insane so it was

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_04]: positive until the age of 18 okay and and it was at the age of 18 is when

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: you started questioning things and you feel like that was the switch for them

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: like that was when they were like you are suddenly not the good girl anymore

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and we can't trust you yeah yeah but even before that they really sabotaged

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_04]: your education in in that you didn't have one exactly while they were

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_04]: funding the education for Africans living there it's like they wanted the

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_04]: credit of like saving you but then didn't help you once you were in the

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_04]: family exactly but we're there to help all of the other people yeah in fact I

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_06]: mean just as I keep researching and zooming way way back in my brain and

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_06]: remembering things on the mission field you one of the ways that you

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_06]: can serve the people is to provide jobs and so almost everyone in Africa

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_06]: has an African we call them an African nanny or an African auntie who comes and

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_06]: makes meals and cleans the house and does laundry and grocery shopping so

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_06]: mind you we don't have microwaves we don't have a see we don't have an

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_06]: automatic mopper or sweeper or all these genius things that America is

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_06]: coming up with we had an African auntie who would come five o'clock in

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_06]: the morning boil water and wash our clothes outside and to me that was

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_06]: normal because that was all I knew and one of our African aunties my parents

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_06]: paid for their daughter their African daughter to go to high school and

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_06]: college and they paid for it all and I just put the pieces together it is

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_06]: shocking but if you don't mind I want to sum up for you the academic

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_06]: sabotage so then you and the audience fully understand what I'm talking

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_06]: about yes please okay so I fought for my education and then I had to accept

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_06]: that if this is big and there's so much psychology here but basically in

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_06]: order to finish high school I had to lean into my masculine and lean out

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_06]: of my feminine and then in order to be safe in the family I had to lean

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_06]: into my feminine and lean out of my masculine and so I stopped doing Bible

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_06]: classes with my parents and my parents freaked out so much that at the age of

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_06]: 19 my dad what's the word he basically lied to me and said you do realize that

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_06]: if you stay for evening devotions you will get more high school credit and

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_06]: this is already after four like I'm four years late in school I have to

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_06]: clean up this mess no matter what you have done I have to clean up this

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_06]: mess because I have to go out in the world and I have to provide for

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_06]: myself and it is a form of abuse when you are lying to a student and oh if you

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_06]: stay we'll give you false credit for high school if you just stay for

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_06]: another devotion class so I said no stood my ground and walked away and my

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_06]: parents would follow me would follow me to my room and bang on my door and

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_06]: say things like I have one more thing to say about God one more thing

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_06]: to say about forgiveness one more thing to say about submission and

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_06]: authority and so when I would be I would do school and then I would

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_06]: make a meal and we would sit down and you think that a family sits down and

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_06]: goes you know hey how can I pray for you how was your day what did you learn

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_06]: at school like is there anything you need at the grocery store how can we

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_06]: love you how can we be there for you but instead we would be silent and

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_06]: eat our food well our dad would push us played away get the Bible out and

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_06]: start strategically reading scripture that would aim at the sinful daughter

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Katrina because she was choosing her education over the submission of what

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_06]: her parents wanted for her so devotions wasn't about a passion and a

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_06]: humility but it was we must remind Katrina that she is a sinful daughter

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_06]: and if she does not get back in line with God which really means get back

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_06]: in line with our vision she's going to hell okay so then in 2019 the

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_06]: abuse academic and religious abuse got so bad that I ended up on the

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_06]: floor burying my head in a pile of clothes on the floor and just begging

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_06]: God to get me out of Africa and usually missionary kids especially for Americans

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_06]: you leave the mission field after high school and you always go back to

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_06]: America for college because the school opportunities in America are insane so

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_06]: that is normal a missionary family always prepares their kid to fly back

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_06]: to America and go to college that is normal and I beg God to get me out

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_06]: of Africa and send me back to America and my overachieving mindset

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_06]: was I will stay with a host family and finish high school in eight weeks well

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_06]: my parents got scared I think because of how I challenged them and so they

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_06]: said all right fine we're gonna let you go and they said when do you want

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_06]: to leave I said March 12 2020

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_06]: yes it is oh my word I mean everything in this story is so

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_06]: book worthy it's so movie worthy and so all of my family members all

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_06]: my siblings in Ireland the UK America were calling me and texting me my phone

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_06]: was ringing like a Christmas tree and they were all like do get on the plane

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_06]: now I'm like sobbing on my floor going God for me this isn't about this

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_06]: crazy new scary medical thing called COVID-19 this is about getting away

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_06]: from abuse and um I got stuck in Africa for eight more weeks and then

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_06]: God opened this miraculous door for my entire family to move back to America

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_06]: within 24 hours of notice and when we got here I was naive and I thought

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_06]: hey we're in a new community we're in a new country there's this new scary

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_06]: medical thing going on it would be better for me to just stay with mom

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_06]: and dad so we moved into a cabin for free that was sitting on a pond with

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_06]: moccasins snakes which oh my word Americans are like oh my goodness

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_06]: you're from Africa? Like do you see snakes every day? and I'm like no you know what I've seen more snakes in the

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_06]: last two weeks of being in America than I have in my entire life in

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Africa so no and all these people in the community would bring us meals

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_06]: every other day so we were in honeymoon phase but just because you

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_06]: live in a new community have a new church and you're living in a new

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_06]: country doesn't mean that the abuse stops so I became a workaholic again

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_06]: did great like crunched out insane amount of assignments that my teachers

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_06]: said they couldn't keep up with me and they actually had to have a boundary

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_06]: with me that if it was the end of the day even if I had submitted 12

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_06]: assignments they were allowed to turn their computers off because they

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_06]: could not keep up with Katrina Ford so that was really funny that even

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_06]: my high school teachers couldn't keep up with me but I was beating myself up

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_06]: and I treated myself in an inhuman way and I think that that happens when

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_06]: you're dealing with academic sabotage and you're not getting the help that

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_06]: you need and so how this bleeds into when you become an adult is you

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_06]: become a workaholic and it's how you function because it's the only

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_06]: way that brings some sort of healing to the trauma that you experienced

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_06]: so anyway I'm trying to keep going because we have to get to the shunning

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm also sorry I'm gonna interrupt us and not let you keep going I am so

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: struck by your story that like it almost seems like throwing yourself

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: into your academics and being a workaholic was kind of an escape from

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: your family too and so it's sort of a way that you're escaping this

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_04]: abuse it's like I think you said this in the podcast that I listened

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_04]: to you on your parents would come up and talk to you and you would say no I

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_04]: will talk to you when the school day is done like I am still working and so

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_04]: in that way it was like a safety like a wall for you between you

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_04]: and your parents does that feel accurate very much so I love the way

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_06]: you describe that yeah okay now you're making me want to go back to

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_06]: that scene if your parents so my parents my mom would spend the

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_06]: day in bed and even our dogs would sit at her door just whining for her to get

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_06]: up and she wouldn't come out until the evening and so we learned to tiptoe

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_06]: around the house because my dad would just watch us and constantly like in a

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_06]: way you're stealing our childhood by forcing us to just be super good and

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_06]: super quiet and tiptoe around the house when we weren't created to do

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_06]: that we were created to be children and then when I started taking my

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_06]: education to a different level my dad and mom would lose control and so they

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_06]: would go into their room lock the door and start whispering about me and I

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_06]: could hear them and I had to learn to have self-control and not melt because

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_06]: when I heard them whispering it was a sign you are in danger because they

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_06]: aren't happy and my mentor had to go that is not your problem your job is

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_06]: to be a student and so if they come up to you your job is to shut

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_06]: it down and go hey I'm in the middle of a workday you can talk to me after work

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_06]: hours and I cannot remember a single time that they respected that one day

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I let go of good girl syndrome and I looked at my dad and I said you don't

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_06]: have to understand my education desire but you have to respect it and

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_06]: he just he lost it he could not understand so if your academic

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_06]: provider and your parents aren't teaching you what a proper workday

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_06]: looks like and they shame you for having a proper work ethic that is some

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_06]: insanity mm-hmm Wow

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd also like to invite you even further into the conversation right now

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: there are some great discussions happening over in the Dauntless Media

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Collective discord server if you're interested in chatting with other folks

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: who are deconstructing and decolonizing the oppressive traditions

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that they came from please feel free to hop on into the server if you

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: don't know what discord is it's a place where communities can gather

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: online for chatting on a wide variety of topics in our discord

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: server we have channels devoted to general deconstruction conversations

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: some meme sharing therapeutic venting about whatever religious bullshit you're

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: currently dealing with and even a channel specifically devoted to talking

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: about the latest episodes of the podcast you're listening to right now

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you'll join us you can log in directly to the Dauntless server by

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: clicking the link in the show notes or heading to Dauntless.fm and

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: clicking the link in the top banner see you there okay I want to yeah I

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_04]: want to hear about the shedding because then I want to get into your

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So can you tell us what led to the shunning and what was the shunning?

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh such a good question I'm so happy about this and I mean a shunning is nasty

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_06]: so I'm like wait you got to explain like why you're so passionate about it

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_06]: but it's just it's part of my story and I guess to introduce you to the

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_06]: shunning how does a 22 year old find herself shunned not out of one

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_06]: but out of two religious communities within two weeks well it all comes from

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_06]: the training to sit stay submit serve and be silent so if you're trained

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_06]: like that growing up then it's going to affect you as an adult so anyway

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_06]: when my family and I moved to America in 2020 I graduated high school

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_06]: unblessed by my parents and then they told me they could not get me a

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_06]: or transcript and I had to wait six months and then it finally arrived and I

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_06]: got into Liberty University and the understanding was in order to go in

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_06]: order for mom and dad to pay for college you have to go to a Christian

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_06]: school well because I chose Liberty University as an adult woman they got

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_06]: angry and they unblessed me to go to Liberty and then they promised me

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_06]: my college money and then they took it away and they said we decided not

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_06]: to give you your college money so the academic and religious abuse got so bad

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_06]: that I ended up collapsing on my floor and puking and that's when scales fell

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_06]: from my eyes and it was Jesus did not create you to start yourself and to

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_06]: throw up this is not what life looks like this is not what Christianity

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_06]: looks like so I begged God to get me out and that is when my brother who

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_06]: is an 11 years older than me invited me to move to a different city and

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_06]: live with he and his family that's super interesting because literally 12

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_06]: weeks into living with them I had just found out I had the rare diseases just

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_06]: found out that my parents took my education money away and I couldn't get

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_06]: out of bed because I had severe chronic pain and that is a sign of the

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_06]: severity of the trauma that your body was holding and so I was in survival

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_06]: mode and it is a miracle that I am still alive today and when I moved

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_06]: to this new city I didn't have any friends I did not have a car and my

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_06]: brother and his wife said we will never abuse you and we will never treat

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_06]: you the way mom and dad did we just want to create a safe place for you

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_06]: to grow and heal so you can become independent and I was like yes yes

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_06]: this is so great and I felt like the most badass adult ever I was like

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_06]: this is a dream I got into a community college which made my

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_06]: parents mad and I wanted to study psychology and become a trauma therapist

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah you did yeah and then I had a half-time job as a live-in nanny for my

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_06]: brother and his wife now I didn't go to church three times because I was

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_06]: dealing with everything and that was a risk to how people perceive them and

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_06]: mind you this is super important for the shunning they moved to a

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_06]: neighborhood that was going through gentrification and so the neighborhood

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_06]: was full of all these stunning beautiful African-American families but

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_06]: then the road that we were living on were all of these brand new stunning

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_06]: houses that all of these young successful white couples were moving

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_06]: into and who was one of those couples my brother and his wife and so

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I move in and I'm that African tiny African sister who is playing a role

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_06]: of servant of being a servant but that's safer because missionaries are

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_06]: used to being to serving serving serving and good girls are used to

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_06]: serving serving serving but I just thought it was a job and I was

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_06]: excited to get away from my abusers bottom line 12 weeks in my sister-in-law

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_06]: and brother forced me into a meeting and they said you did not go

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_06]: to church three times and we need to know why this is not okay you live

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_06]: in our community you eat our food and you take up our space that alone

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_06]: highlights that a good girl isn't a human but she is a robot and she must

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_06]: be pleasing at all times or we can take the space away from you we can

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_06]: take this food away from you and we can take this community away from you

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_06]: so my body was in shock I couldn't figure out what was going on but my

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_06]: And so I went into survival mode and I go into detail about this good girls

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_06]: aren't allowed to show anger but good girls are allowed to show safe

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_06]: feminine emotions like getting sniffles and getting teary-eyed but

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_06]: even that can be a risk religious abuse is one of the most disgusting and

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_06]: heartbreaking things especially if you've ever witnessed a true authentic

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_06]: relationship with God it disgusts you to a whole nother level and so I

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_06]: collapsed in my chair and I am shaking and hyperventilating and snot and tears

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_06]: are going everywhere and my sister-in-law the abuser gets a look at

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_06]: my face and she says I know that this is hard but we will never back

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_06]: down because we are teaching you what true community looks like and my

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_06]: brother who was a deacon sat there and watched his wife drench me in

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_06]: So I ended up leaving the table wailing as a 22 year old not functioning all the

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_06]: chronic pain came back and I started failing my classes and as I walked away

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_06]: from the table my sister-in-law stops me again and she goes we have yet to

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_06]: decide what our expectation is of you going to church meaning we're

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_06]: keeping an eye on you and if you don't start going back to church we

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_06]: do have the right to let's use the word kick out for right now to kick

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_06]: you out of our community which also is a whole lot of pride that they truly

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_06]: believe this community was theirs and they got to call the shots that is

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_06]: very creepy it's very creepy but it goes to a whole whole whole nother

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_06]: level a couple weeks go by and I'm hanging on desperately and I shut down

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_06]: and if anyone can tell I am a extrovert and I'm bubbly and I talk a

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_06]: laugh really hard and so people it was a threat when I wasn't like that anymore

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_06]: and so my sister-in-law said we will be having a meeting about your emotions

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_06]: and actually what's really cool is I just had a meeting with this doctorate

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_06]: of psychology and she's mentoring me through through my book writing and we

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_06]: just realized another form of what makes this a cult and it is my

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_06]: sister-in-law asked me about my emotions and I said you know what I'm

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_06]: good I already talked to my mentor and my best friend and she said that's not

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_06]: okay you must talk to us because we are your community and so this doctor

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_06]: of psychology helped me understand that that is actually very cult-like

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_06]: you are not allowed to go out of the circle you must stay in the circle

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_06]: and what clarifies that this is cult-like is that was the last straw

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Katrina Ford was forced into a meeting where she did not share her

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_06]: emotions and because I didn't they said we cannot do this anymore either you

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_06]: will be we are kicking you out you must pay a higher price for living with

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_06]: us meaning more money even though you are our live-in nanny and sister

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_06]: and then my sister-in-law who is white had the audacity to say we took

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_06]: a risk bringing you into our community I have never been talked to

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_06]: like that in my life and as an adopted African I mean and this was during the

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_06]: George Floyd shooting like people are raw people are sensitive and I've never

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_06]: been talked to like that by a white person let alone my family let alone a

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_06]: deacon and his wife and I had the strength somehow to look at them and go

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_06]: you do realize that is abuse the way you are treating me is abuse so they

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_06]: freaked out they wrote a list of expectations hopes and desires and if

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_06]: you were to look at the list it all looks like really good godly things go

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_06]: to church make godly community let people love you and serve you and speak

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_06]: into your life so it was very sneaky it all looked like basic stuff that a

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Christian community would do but this the evil behind it is oh but actually

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_06]: telling you is that if you don't live by this we will shun you so I'm getting

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_06]: ready to do some social media posts about this what is the difference

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_06]: between being kicked out versus shunned perfect question y'all the

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_06]: difference is that when I got kicked out before that they were going to

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_06]: send me away for ten days so that they could heal and pray about what

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_06]: their next step and choice was for the sinful girl Katrina good lord so they

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_06]: were gonna send me away like a bad girl in time out and they said that

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_06]: their church had advised them to send me away and I got sick this is this

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_06]: is where it gets deep you might need tissues you just might need

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_06]: teeth tissues y'all buckle your seat belts buckle them tight we're buckled

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Katrina okay lo and behold I get sick and my sister-in-law puts me in

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_06]: quarantine mind you before I was put in quarantine I go to church with the

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_06]: woman across the street dun dun dun this is the chapter in the book it

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_06]: was the most juicy chapter in the book the woman across the street was

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_06]: my only African-American friend and stunning and the Holy Spirit took a

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_06]: hold of her heart and said do you see that woman that is several shades

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_06]: darker than you ten years younger than you she's being shunned for false

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_06]: reasons and I want you to open your miraculous wonderful new house 150 feet

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_06]: across the street from her abusers and I want you to invite her to live

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_06]: with you for 365 days so I let my brother and his wife know hey I

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_06]: understand you were kicking me out I've hurt you by not going to church three

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_06]: times by dropping out of school privately because of the academic

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_06]: sabotage that mom and dad put me through and by being private I want to

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_06]: respect you so I'm leaving and I'm gonna go live across the street with

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_06]: the only friend in my entire city okay and my sister-in-law reaches her

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_06]: hand out across the table and she says yeah we talked to your neighbor

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_06]: and she said that if we do not bless you give you our permission give you

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_06]: our blessing to move in with her you will not have permission to live

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_06]: with her do you understand Katrina we are so honored that she would give us

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_06]: the say and the authority to make this decision

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_06]: and then I got sick and I was put in quarantine so I don't think I have

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_06]: anywhere to live and I don't have money and I don't have a car

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_06]: and I'm being shunned out of an entire community so lo and behold I find out

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_06]: that as I am in quarantine for five days my brother and his wife get in

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_06]: contact or walk across the street to that woman

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_06]: and not once not twice but three times over tried to jeopardize and

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_06]: manipulate and make sure I did not have a home to live in

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_06]: and then later I find out that they were trying to make plans to send me

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_06]: out of the city and stay and live with a different family member

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_06]: because we just can't do this anymore Katrina is too private

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_06]: and that is a risk to the community that we are trying to build

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_06]: in diversity basically you are saying the kingdom of God cannot be built

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_06]: through an introvert the kingdom cannot be built through someone who is

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_06]: traumatized and then the action of these people

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_06]: is we're not just going to hurt you we're going to crush you because we

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_04]: are teaching you a lesson of the character of God and not just an

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_04]: introvert but somebody with boundaries like you can be an ex

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: like it's not about being quiet or wanting time to yourself it's about

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: being able to have any thoughts or feelings that are private

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_04]: that's what they're saying can't be part of their community or the

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_06]: kingdom of God it seems like yep oh definitely definitely you

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_06]: nailed it and so the woman across the street calls me

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_06]: after a 12-hour shift at the hospital and she says Katrina I need you to come over right now

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I go over and she tells me the news and I come back over to my house

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_06]: and I looked at my abusers and I said I just found out

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_06]: that you lied to me and that you do not have the right to tell me I

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_06]: can't live with this woman and my sister-in-law says how dare you

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_06]: you are giving us sass and this is the drum roll of the good girl

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_06]: for the first first time in ever the good girl admits

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not giving you sass abuser I am angry that you thought you had the

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_06]: right to jeopardize sabotage and manipulate a human being

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_06]: having a home I am angry and she started applauding her

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_06]: hands like a cheerleader on the side of a football game started putting her

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_06]: hands up in the air and rejoicing and taunting me and trying to get my

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_06]: brother to join in the next day my brother gave me a

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_06]: just get out nothing is going to get better and so I went on a walk because

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_06]: the good girl is paralyzed so I need some leadership what do I do how do I

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_06]: move I just don't know how to do this which is really interesting but

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_06]: you've been trained to be stuck and so I took a walk

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_06]: and I called a girlfriend and she said get the hell out of there put

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_06]: everything in boxes and laundry bags or trash bags and get the hell

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_06]: out of there because I already had a key to the woman across the

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_06]: house so lo and behold not only was I a live-in nanny for my family members but

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I was a live-in nanny for their neighbors that lived right next door to

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_06]: them and so I did not realize that I was

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_06]: asking for help from another community member that was not safe you

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_06]: know that saying oh I am just always here for you if you need

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_06]: anything darling sugar pie I'm here for you

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_06]: but do we mean that or is that something that community just says but

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_06]: we don't really know the weight that those words carry so I called this

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_06]: couple and I said hey with my rare disease it is really

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_06]: dangerous for me to carry heavy things and I need help getting my

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_06]: suitcases down the stairs could you help me

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_06]: and they belittled me on the phone chastised me

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_06]: and shamed me for needing help as I was being shunned so she contacted my

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_06]: sister and said Katrina is leaving you know what's going on and so as you've

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_06]: got to picture this as I walk up to the White House

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_06]: to pack everything up my sister-in-law zooms into the parking lot

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_06]: gets out comes up to me the neighbor woman comes up to me and it's these

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_06]: two females standing before me taunting me

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_06]: and belittling me I turn around in silence walk up

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_06]: pack everything and they go on a two hour walk with their toddlers

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_06]: because they're so full of shame and they know what's happening this is the

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_06]: ultimate shunning and the African-American well African

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_06]: and American woman Katrina Ford takes about 20 trips back and forth

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_06]: moving everything over and a couple days after the

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_06]: shunning is when the neighbor next door to my

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_06]: brother and his wife I told them I couldn't babysit for them anymore if

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_06]: you haven't noticed I just got shunned

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't have a car I don't have money I can't be your nanny anymore

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_06]: and so they said how dare you we are firing you we will not give you a

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_06]: reference and it is no longer appropriate for you to attend

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_06]: the Bible study that I don't own but I attend

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_06]: and so I am I'm telling you you are no longer welcome in our community

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_06]: and so that happened within two weeks of time and because the woman across

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_06]: the street obeyed the word of God by just loving someone and feeding the

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_06]: least of these she was shunned out of the

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_06]: community as well and for 365 days I got to watch my own family hurt

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_06]: and shun another African-American woman the very people

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_06]: that they came to serve were the very people that they shunned

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_06]: and they shunned her because of her love

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_06]: that is the most insane thing I have ever seen from a psychology

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_06]: standpoint it was inappropriate for me to stay on a road where the abuse

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_06]: was but from a biblical standpoint and from a motivational speaker

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_06]: slash writer standpoint I would never take it back I have a

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_06]: thousand books in my head that are ready to be

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_06]: burst into this world asking really hard questions

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_06]: about character and about God and about community and diversity

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I've had so many people go I don't know how you're still a Christian

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_06]: today we would not be a Christian if we

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_06]: committed suicide by now so I am a living miracle can you talk about where

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_04]: you are well first of all are you where are you

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_04]: now are you safe are you out of your family like where

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_06]: where are you yeah so cool I end the book by saying that after I lived with

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_06]: the woman across the street I said God you say that you take

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_06]: delight in knowing the desires of our hearts so this is my desire I

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_06]: to live in a renovated garage and I need it by the end of December

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_06]: and God was like yeah you know what I'm gonna give that to you so lo and

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_06]: behold I babysat a family I did not know told them my testimony told them

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_06]: I needed a renovated garage by the end of December

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_06]: and they look at each other and then they look at me and they go we

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_06]: have a renovated garage and it's open the end of December

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_06]: and so for the last year and a half I've been living in the most

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_06]: adorable God-given renovated garage about 27

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_06]: minutes away from my abusers wow do you feel safe being that close

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_06]: to them um for the most part I will owe my word

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_06]: you just asked a very juicy question I do have to say this

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_06]: yesterday I was home and someone kept trying to put the password

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_06]: into my door this is a safe neighborhood tried to put the

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_06]: password into my door and kept trying to open it

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_06]: and my body freaked out and I was like the religious community that shunned me

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_06]: is here to kill me and so that freaked me out and so

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I would say anytime that something fishy happens I get panicked

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_06]: but for the most part I feel safe then I think she endures

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: verbal abuse for a season and she endures perhaps being smacked one

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_01]: night and then she seeks help from the church

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_00]: there is a pile of dead bodies behind the mars hill bus

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and by God's grace it'll be a mountain by the time we're done you either get

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_00]: on the bus or you get run over by the bus those are the options

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_05]: there's nothing holy about writing discrimination into the law

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and I am tired of communities of faith being weaponized because the

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_05]: only time religious freedom is invoked is in the name of bigotry and

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_05]: discrimination I'm tired of it

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_02]: hi I'm Nate producer and co-host on the full mutuality podcast

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_02]: let's talk about inequality it's everywhere whether it's rooted in race

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_02]: gender ability or sexuality there's bound to be an imbalance in power

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_02]: influence representation and access on our show we want to explore areas of

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: religion culture and society where justice is needed in order to

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_02]: bring about true mutuality I hope you'll join us for some

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_02]: enlightening fun and at times uncomfortable conversations

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_02]: as we envision a world where everyone can live free from systems and

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_02]: structures that keep us from being truly equal

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you can find us on your favorite podcast app or visit our website

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: fullmutuality.com to find a list of all the platforms we're available on

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: subscribe today and we'll see you on the full mutuality podcast

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_04]: so can we talk a little bit about what you believe today

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_04]: and how you got there and yeah maybe like what your deconstruction

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_04]: was like because I think I mean you've been through so much with

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_04]: the church already I'm curious how that

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_04]: changed your beliefs or caused you to rethink some things or

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah so if you want to start with deconstruction you can or if you want

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: to start with where you are now and then back up and give

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_04]: deconstruction however it feels best to share yeah um I would say

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_06]: after the shunning I was so terrified to go to church

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_06]: and if I'm being honest with you it has taken about two and a half years

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_06]: now to even open my bible and I can really not do it I can maybe

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_06]: google a couple of verses to put in my book

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_06]: or something but I really struggle to open my bible and that's the hardest

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_06]: because the bible was used against me for all

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_06]: of those years to the point where I did not graduate high school forever

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_06]: but church I couldn't go back to church for a really long time

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I struggled to look at men in the eyes especially religious men or pastors and

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_06]: what I do realize is I made religious males a god in my life

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and someone might look at that and be like oh well you're sinning because

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_06]: god says not to idolize anyone but that actually was a training I was

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_06]: trained to idolize white religious males

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_06]: because if I didn't something would be taken away from me

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_06]: and so I'm still dealing with that how I view

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_06]: god right now and through the shunning very confused

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I have done a lot of screaming a lot of crying

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_06]: and what I felt god pressing on me was I don't require anything from you

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_06]: right now I know your heart I've examined your heart and

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_06]: what I say in the book is he looked at my heart so man looks at the outside

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_06]: appearance and god looks within and he saw a fractured belief system

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_06]: and a swollen heart and all he said was I just want you

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_06]: to rest and if that looks like taking power walks on a sunday or just

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_06]: watching netflix that's okay that doesn't make

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_06]: you less of a christian and then I was terrified to admit to people

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I just realized I haven't read my bible in two years

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_06]: and the christians that I've come into contact with were like

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_06]: we don't blame you we're not even worried and I'm like you're not

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really used to married christian couples abusing me

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_06]: and so I actually just made a post about that this christian family looked

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_06]: at me and they were like it's okay like it's okay so I still call myself

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_06]: a christian someone recently just looked at me

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_06]: in disgust and they were like we cannot believe that you still see

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_06]: yourself as a christian because we see christians as cults

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_06]: and I do understand that fear and I understand that anger

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_06]: this is how I see a relationship with god

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I cannot base my relationship with god on what the hateful things that men

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_06]: and religious leaders have done to me I have to look at god's character and

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_06]: it's free and it's always available and how I

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_06]: explained it in the book and I'm writing some messages and I

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_06]: perform them on stage record them and put them on youtube so I'm super excited

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_06]: but basically I was like here's the analogy it's like what we experience

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_06]: at school and at work we hear that that group over there

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_06]: gossiping about the new kid or that person's accent or their

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_06]: culture or their smell or their eating habits and we go I don't want

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_06]: to be friends with them and because we see the majority of people

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_06]: saying that we we follow in their lead without really thinking about it

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_06]: and if we do that you could rob yourself of what are the coolest

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_06]: relationships with that person at school or at work

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_06]: and so just for me personally I feel like I would be doing that

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_06]: with Jesus that I would be robbing myself of

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_06]: his really cool character and the really cool things that he has in

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_06]: store for me if I were to base it on the abusive

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_06]: character of my brother his wife my mom and my dad so that's how I

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm also very very weary I am extremely tired and I almost have

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_06]: nothing to give and if I'm being honest like even this

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_06]: week some really hard things have happened and I found myself

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_06]: on the floor wailing and screaming at God going I don't know what you want

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_06]: from me I am yours I love you but I

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_04]: literally have nothing else to give I my listeners know that I don't

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_04]: believe in God many guests do many guests don't

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_04]: but I think that for what you have been through there's probably some

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_04]: power that comes with reclaiming your faith in God in a way

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_04]: that works for you and that's not abusive

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and so whether you know I always say like I won't hold you to

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_04]: where where you say you are today I won't hold you to that

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_04]: so yeah and not that I have any say anyway but like it can change

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and so maybe you won't call yourself a Christian forever and maybe you will

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_04]: but I think that it seems like right now there's probably something really

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_04]: powerful in realizing that God does not equal

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_04]: the Christian white male that has been abusive in your life

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_04]: and to to own that as something else

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah I don't know does that feel true I agree with what you said

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_06]: yes yeah yeah I actually just made a post about this

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_06]: sometimes we operate like at least for me in my abusive situation I operated as

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_06]: a servant before I operated as a daughter

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_06]: and I was like ooh that's juicy so I started exploring that

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_06]: and I was like wait a second God did not put me on this earth to be a

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_06]: good girl he put me on this earth to be an

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_06]: authentic daughter which means he wants to see the mess

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_06]: he wants to be a part of the mess he extracted the tears from my pillow

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_06]: case and put them in a sacred jar and before

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_06]: he saved the day and parted the sea of the modern day shunning

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_06]: he wept with me he just sat with me and he wept with me that's how I see

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_06]: it and I thought it was so poetic and I put it in the book

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_06]: you know like when Jesus in the Bible when Lazarus died

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_06]: he didn't come to the mourners and go break it up stop crying I'm here to

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_06]: save the day before that he wept with them and then

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_06]: he saved the day and then I was thinking about it

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_06]: and like when he saved the day and caused a miracle to happen

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_06]: it's like he's also offering wisdom but it's really interesting that

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_06]: before he saves the day before he offers wisdom and before he makes

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_06]: miracles happen he becomes human and weeps with us

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_06]: and then he goes oh yeah I'm mighty I'm above all of this and I can

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_06]: I can I can make beauty out of this I thought that was really cool that

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Jesus always humbles himself down to our

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_06]: level and goes can I just weep with you

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_06]: can I feel hunger with you can I feel grief with you oh and I'm

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_06]: also the way maker and so I'm like that's really curious

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't let go of you like I have to discover a little bit more about you

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to make any drastic decisions out of my anger

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_06]: even though I am angry that's where I am right now

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know yeah and what I hear in that because I

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: you know I hear this as somebody who's not a Christian and I

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_04]: am sort of like Jesus is I don't know

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm indifferent to him I guess I hear like the importance of taking time

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_04]: to grieve before we pick ourselves up and try to move on

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess you know like thinking about him saving the day

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: and performing these miracles and offering wisdom and before he did

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_04]: that he cried and it's like yes sit with the grief

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_04]: before we are like okay now what are we gonna do with it or what are we

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_04]: gonna turn it into it's like the importance of yeah letting

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_04]: ourselves go through the process I guess that's really good

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_06]: you know even I'll just like confess some of the ugly things in my heart

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_06]: living on that street and watching all the parties that happened

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and all the dinner parties and all the community that

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_06]: that was in their driveway but nobody really cared about me and

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_06]: the woman across the street and we were trying to honor God

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_06]: and there was no reward for that we didn't really feel like we saw fruit

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_06]: from that and there's a lot of anger there's

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_06]: like I don't like I don't understand Jesus why me

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_06]: why did I why do I have to carry why am I responsible

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_06]: to carry that story and all the images in my head of what I witnessed

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_06]: like why me I don't understand I can't handle this anymore

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_06]: now there is one thing I wanted to tell you that when I left

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_06]: the road of shunning I was driving away to my renovated garage

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_06]: and I was really sad that that season was ending because even though it was

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_06]: almost heartbreaking season within this woman's

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_06]: house I was living in a miracle if I went outside of the house it

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_06]: was like oh I'm in the shunning but if I was in the house I was like

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm living in a miracle and I didn't want to leave and God

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_06]: said Katrina just because the season end doesn't mean

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_06]: that the miracle ends and then I said Jesus what do you want me to take from

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_06]: this experience on the road of shunning and he said I want you to know that

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_06]: you are radically chosen and profusely loved and I was like

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_06]: whoa that is deep and so on the book the book is called

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_06]: religious black sheep and underneath it it says going from

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_06]: orphaned sabotaged and shunned to radically chosen and profusely loved

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_06]: and I want that to start conversations for people

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think that every abuser on this world has

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_06]: experienced the tremendous amount of chosenness and love that I

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_06]: experienced from this woman across the street is

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_06]: such an insane story that I think people haven't heard that version

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_06]: before and I want to spread that around the world

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_06]: but so I'll say this carefully so the shunning happened like two and a half

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_06]: years ago and the healing process has been the

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_06]: most exhausting thing I've ever experienced but I was like oh

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_06]: maybe there's light at the end of the road I haven't experienced any

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_06]: more religious abuse but it's funny because funny in such a non-funny way

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_06]: that this week I was a part of an organization

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_06]: for the last two years and I came off as the really funky weird loud

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Christian that was not ashamed of her faith

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_06]: and when people heard my story they were like we just can't believe that

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_06]: you carry this much joy and this much servanthood for the

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_06]: people around you at this organization and lo and behold

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_06]: actually just two days ago the leader of this organization

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_06]: put me before the pastor lied about me shamed me and then cut me out of this

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_06]: organization and I remember my eyes kind of like

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_06]: losing color and my heart just pounding and my hands shaking

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_06]: and just seeing again like the severity

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_06]: of the injustice and it just made me zoom right back into the shunning that

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_06]: only happened like two years ago y'all and again what was the tendency here

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_06]: what was the familiarity this is really important I think for this

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_06]: podcast again who was I facing I was facing a

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_06]: white male pastor and then I was facing a

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_06]: female woman who is in leadership and you didn't just want to cut me out of

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_06]: an organization you wanted to punish me in front of a

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_06]: leader shame me and then cast me out and then send me away

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_06]: and it is the most insane thing it's so terrifying and so just for

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_06]: the sake of being vulnerable with the people on here I almost thought I

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_06]: couldn't come on the podcast because I was in so much shock I this

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_06]: only happened two days ago and the thing that is similar is if you look at all

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_06]: three of the stories the academic sabotage

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_06]: the two shunnings on the road of shunning and then getting kicked out

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_06]: of this organization two days ago is that every time that you are

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_06]: punished it can't just be a natural punishment like we're kicking you out

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_06]: because you didn't pay rent or we're kicking you out because we don't agree

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_06]: with you it is we are going to punish you but

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_06]: because we know that you take your faith

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_06]: serious and we can sense this good girl inside of you

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_06]: we are going to put you before a leader so the leader would be my dad the

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Anglican pastor and then my deacon brother

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_06]: and then the pastor of this organization two days ago

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_06]: and then the women join in and they mock you and scoff you

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_06]: lie about you and then they send you away and that's just so

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_06]: interesting to me and I remember screaming at the top of my lungs

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_06]: yesterday and today before the podcast I was like I don't know

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_06]: what you want from me the fruit isn't working

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_06]: where is Jesus where is God where is the character

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't do this anymore and then the question is are you really

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_06]: radically chosen and profusely loved and I can't go down that I I'm I

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_06]: refuse to question the character of God

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_06]: but I am desperately questioning the character

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_06]: of the people that say that they are the people of God in America

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_06]: it is so shocking and it is so disgusting

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_06]: especially for an African missionary kid who saw people with

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_06]: humongous bellies full of worms who ate one meal a day

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_06]: who never had shoes that the calluses on their feet are the

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_06]: only protection they've ever had and what is your goal as a missionary

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_06]: to share the love of God to educate them on sanitary

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_06]: and pads and how to dig wells and how to make sure that their cattle aren't

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_06]: infested with worms so then they can kill them and

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_06]: make food for their starving children and we share the gospel but it is

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_06]: never based on if you don't accept him we're going to shun you

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_06]: shame you and take basic human rights away from you and so that is the

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_06]: one thing that as a missionary kid in America after four years

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_06]: of living here I am sobbing for for the people that consider

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_06]: themselves Christians in America and I understand the anger that people

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_06]: that have come out of abuse and are deconstructing I

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_06]: understand your anger and I'm with you and I'm working so hard to

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_06]: to figure out to bring beauty and to bring meaning out of it

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_04]: oh thank you for being honest and raw and and like really vulnerable I

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_04]: think there are probably other listeners that

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_04]: feel similar to you and so I really appreciate you sharing that

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and and yeah I guess just reminding you and anyone else out there who

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_04]: feels like that right now you are not alone and no matter

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: what your view of God goes through I'm sure maybe it will go through ups

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and downs but I will remind you that you are good

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_04]: and you are loved and you are worthy no matter what your view of God is

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_04]: you are still radically loved and chosen to be

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_04]: exactly who you are whether it's by God or by

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: us by you whatever it is like you are

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: doing a great job and you are so loved so thank you

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_06]: thank you so much and thank you for having me

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_06]: on your platform it is an honor to have these conversations with other people

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_06]: that are seeking and grieving it really is an honor I

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_06]: don't really have any words to describe it

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah well thank you so much for being here I I like to wrap up with

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_04]: some kind of encouragement for listeners could you offer some

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: encouragement to the person coming out of this religious

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_04]: good girl role that they have played I think that's

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_04]: so many of us what would you say to them oh

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_06]: oh that is so good even though I am in a place of deep confusion

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_06]: after what happened two days ago and I still have a lot of processing to do

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_06]: dear followers dear listeners in the midst of the confusion you

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_06]: still are radically chosen and profusely loved please know

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_06]: that your chosenness and your identity is not based on how good you

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_06]: can be it's about just being it's about being

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_06]: your authentic messy self and if people can't accept that

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_06]: that is a them problem not a you problem

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_06]: the abuse that we have gone through in the religious world

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_06]: says so much more about the abusers than it does about you

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_06]: this is not your fault take that in this is not

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_06]: your fault I bless you to rest I bless you to mourn

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I bless you to scream and I bless you to sit in the new

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_06]: identity that you truly are radically chosen

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and profusely loved I love that thank you Katrina

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_04]: where can my listeners find you connect with you

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_06]: learn about your book when it's out yeah you can find me on instagram

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_06]: under the name Katrina Ford underscore speaker and then on Facebook

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_06]: it's just Katrina Ford and on TikTok I believe it's just

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Katrina Ford or Katrina Ford underscore speaker okay and I'll link

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_04]: whatever it is I'll link it in the show notes so we can

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_04]: find it quickly thank you amazing thank you so much for being here

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Katrina oh wait no and where can we find your book

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_06]: when is it out oh okay I have not announced when it is

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_06]: coming out yet you can read a little bit about it on my page

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_06]: on my instagram page but it I don't quite know when it's coming out but

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_06]: when it does it's gonna launch hard and it's gonna be juicy

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and it is gonna rock this world amazing I have no doubt about that

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll keep my eye out for when it's out and I'll

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_04]: share it out as well so Katrina thank you for being here you are a delight

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_04]: you are good you are loved and you are so worthy and I really appreciate you

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: taking the time to be on the podcast thank you thank you for having me

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_04]: thanks for listening to another episode of hello deconstructionists

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_04]: if you enjoyed this episode or any others please follow subscribe

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_04]: rate or review the podcast wherever you listen

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and if you can share this episode with a friend who might enjoy the

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_04]: conversation as well don't forget that you can join the

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_04]: conversation in the Dauntless Media Collective Discord server by clicking

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_04]: the link in the show notes or heading to Dauntless.fm and

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_04]: clicking the link in the top banner as always you can find me over on

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_04]: instagram at hello underscore deconstructionists where together we

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_04]: are building community after evangelicalism one story at a time

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_04]: huge thank you to Amy Azera for writing the theme song for this podcast

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_04]: and when this sweet little bop inevitably gets stuck in your head

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I hope it reminds you of this wonderful community that's here with

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_04]: you thanks to all our guests for sharing

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_04]: these parts of their stories with us and of course to you for listening

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: see you next time

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_03]: gotta deconstruct