29: "Let's See What Happens" with Janice Lagata

[00:00:01] Hello Deconstructionists and welcome back to our podcast. I've been on a short break from releasing new episodes, enjoying vacation with my family and getting ready for some exciting changes in the podcast. I've recently joined the Dauntless Media Collective team of podcasters to help bring you

[00:00:17] even better content and some other deconstruction-related podcasts as well. So, in a week or two, I'll start releasing season 2 with a new colorful cover thanks to Nate over at full mutuality podcast for designing it and I'll throw in some information

[00:00:32] about some other podcasts in the collective throughout each episode. If you've already been listening and want to check out some of the cool features ahead of our official season 2 launch, you can head on over to our Dauntless Media Collective

[00:00:43] Discord server where there's a channel specifically devoted to talking about the latest episodes of Hello Deconstructionists or any other podcasts that you're currently listening to. More information and lots more great content coming soon. Today I have a special episode for you where we're not sharing any deconstruction story.

[00:01:02] Instead, Janice Lagada who runs the Instagram account, God has not given, is joining me to reflect on the current political happenings in the US. Namely, Joe Biden stepping down as the presidential nominee and Kamala Harris stepping in.

[00:01:15] This is the first time we're going to have a black and Asian woman on the ticket for president. This is incredibly exciting news and I'm so excited to cast my vote for her in the fall.

[00:01:25] However, the conversation has been full of opinions regarding her past and her stance on Israel and Palestine. This has been a huge topic of conversation in the deconstruction community and it felt appropriate to address it.

[00:01:38] I don't think you need my voice as a white woman here right now, so I've invited Janice in to share her thoughts as a black woman in this country. Janice is one of the greatest people I've met in this space and I'm incredibly appreciative

[00:01:50] of her giving her time and energy to share some of the nuanced perspectives of this conversation with us today. Included in the show notes are some other incredible black content creators on Instagram, so be sure to check them out to continue learning and listening.

[00:02:05] Alright, enjoy this episode with Janice Lagada. Hello deconstructionists, this is Maggie, the host of our podcast. We will collectively share our stories and experiences of leaving high control religion along with what it's been like for us to find new practices that help us feel good

[00:02:53] and confident in ourselves. I hope that hearing these stories reminds you that your deconstruction is valid and most of all that you are not alone on this journey. You are good, you are loved and you are worthy just as you are. Hello deconstructionists, how does the motto for 2024?

[00:03:12] We'll see you at once. Alright, my guest today is Janice Lagada. Again, Janice has been on the podcast once before, although the episode is not out yet, I was just telling Janice, I think I was a little bit drunk when we recorded our episode

[00:03:29] because it was Easter Sunday, so I'm scared to go back and listen to it but I will release the episode soon. But Janice is back for a second episode already. Janice is a black, extra in jellicle girl, shaking off a white evangelical world and she

[00:03:44] is a writer, musician, side-hustler, cat, person, storyteller and Christian Reven jellicle. She is one of the most creative people that I know not only in this deconstruction space but just in the world, she is a treat we are so lucky to have her.

[00:04:00] So Janice is here because we are, as you know, living in unprecedented times. At the time of this recording, which is on Tuesday afternoon, July 23rd, at the time of this recording, Biden is no longer the presidential nominee he has stepped down and it looks

[00:04:18] like Kamala Harris will be stepping in, although we'll see how things go to the MC but that's where where things look like they are headed. We do not need more white voices in this space at the moment and so I wanted to hand

[00:04:33] them over to Janice to share some of her thoughts about Kamala being the Democratic presidential nominee. What she thinks about that, what we can do as a white community to support our black brother's sisters friends in this space.

[00:04:48] So Janice, can you share maybe just like some of your thoughts, your initial thoughts and then we can go from there. But what are your initial thoughts about what is happening in this weird timeline we're living in right now?

[00:05:00] Oh man, and it's, we are, this is Tuesday and this all happened on Sunday. So I'm being depending on, you know, how the time is working for you and how you're looking at the clock, like we are tops three days into this thing, right?

[00:05:20] And it's already not great. So like it's, it's even hard to kind of nail down with my initial thoughts were because so much has already been said and so much has already happening and like I haven't

[00:05:39] even, I feel like I've never even got a chance to just kind of sit with, oh like just a black woman with a legitimate shot at the most powerful position in the world. And like I don't even remember who was from but if someone, someone I'm following

[00:05:59] and like one of the first comments I saw was basically, and it wasn't a black person, basically being like this is nothing for a black people to be proud of. Like this is not, this is not a moment, you know?

[00:06:13] And then like in like hitting at, you know, representation doesn't really matter as it's not, you know, whatever. And so just automatically just kind of being, being on the defense and just feeling like,

[00:06:25] oh, like I hate that people think they get to tell us how to feel and how we should feel about this and always having to both sides everything. Like I'm not allowed to say, no, I think representation does matter and I am happy about it.

[00:06:45] Like if I say that then I immediately have to say yes, I know Kamala Harris is not a perfect person. She has done problematic things. And I don't know, there's just this, there's just a lack of nuance.

[00:06:57] It's like there's a level of supremacy where I don't think white people understand that black people know how to do nuance. And like we can see both sides of things and we can be happy about

[00:07:12] strides that, you know, we're making and then also like I'm very like I said, just the, the, it's a win. A win is a win right? And so yes, it's like oh, here is a woman who looks like me and who is in the position

[00:07:31] to be put in this extremely powerful position. That's a win. Also that's a weight. Yeah, she could be in the most powerful position on earth that is also the most bloodstained and problematic and wicked position on earth.

[00:07:52] And so carrying like the acknowledgement and the pride of being like no, like we're we're worthy, we're just as good as anyone else and we can also do this. And also the weight of and the worry of, we're just as a fallible as anyone else.

[00:08:09] And just as likely to be corrupted and crushed by power. Mm-hmm. And I guess that I just don't think white people is not as white people. A lot of non-black people just do not give us the credit for being able to do that kind of nuance.

[00:08:27] And I feel like people like us and they like us when we are a part of their cause. But there's still this lingering sense of like ownership. And people feel entitled to our vote and to our voice and to the little bit of power that we have.

[00:08:52] And that's like that doesn't actually belong to you. We don't actually belong to you. We belong to us and we are allowed to think of ourselves first, whatever that means and whatever

[00:09:06] that looks like. And so it does a disservice to us all where the tension that is coming forward now and being set up now is like no black people you need to be willing to

[00:09:19] sacrifice yourselves for the Palestinian cause. And we've been out here and we've been fighting for this. And I don't know this and there's somebody for everything. So there does exist the black person

[00:09:35] who was going to vote third party and who is now not going to do that, right? Who is now like, oh, Team Kamala all the way. Right. And there are there is somebody who exists and who is doing that

[00:09:47] purely just because it's the black face and that's all I'm seeing and that's all that matters to me. But for the most part, everyone who of who I have seen personally who is hyped about Kamala

[00:09:58] or not even hype just like energized by this was already voting blue. And was ready to do it unenthusiastically for Joe just for this is how I see the best way forward. I don't love it

[00:10:15] but it seems like the safest option the best bet. So I don't know anyone who flipped from third party to Kamala. I know a lot of people who flipped from unenthusiastic to energized,

[00:10:28] but like the numbers I don't think have really changed and that's why I did a story today but just talking about like it's not this move wasn't made for the people who are staunchly third party. It wasn't for you. But wasn't for you. And also like we haven't

[00:10:50] we haven't taken a moment to like celebrate. Yeah. And to be like guys look what we did like a week ago people were saying it's impossible these are your two options. That's it.

[00:11:04] Right. This is all you get. It's going to be Trump or it's going to be Biden deal with it. That's it. We're not changing. It's never changed before. Can't be changed. It's impossible. Not going to happen.

[00:11:15] We kept pushing. We kept pushing. We kept saying no there has to be another way. People kept pulling. Right. Like it's like a tug of war. We kept pulling. We got them over this line.

[00:11:28] And it's not. It's not Jill Stein. It's not Cornel West. It's not you. It's not me. Right. It's not some just completely random outlier. Right. It is it is one of the cogs in the political machine, which it was always going to be. But it's a different cog.

[00:11:50] Right. And they did that because we wouldn't shut up about it. And like you've said before like it's all made up. Right. This whole system that we're living in is all made up. And to get to the top

[00:12:04] you do have to play the game. So yes, Kamala is a cog in the machine sure. But no everybody who's been a leader is a cog in the machine. If you want people to be in this leadership position that

[00:12:15] white men have created it's a corrupt system. It's a corrupt position. Like you said earlier. So yes, it is sure there are things that we can say Kamala should be this or whoever is in this office

[00:12:29] should be this. But for her to get there, she has to be a cog in the machine. Or else she doesn't get to that position. Whether we like it or not, it's like sure I would love to keep pushing for change.

[00:12:40] But that's not her job right now. You know? Right now. And like and we again, she is not above critique at all. However, if you are a white person, if you are a non black person who

[00:12:58] did not cast a protest vote in 2020 when it was Biden Harris, if you did not then cast the third party vote because specifically of the histories of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in regards to

[00:13:14] the black community. I don't want to hear shit from you about it right now. Because either A, you don't really care. Or B, you just got on board within the last four years. And it's like

[00:13:29] you got a lot of nerve to now not have the same grace and patience for other people who are on that journey. And like you're not doing it for us, you're not because again, you weren't concerned

[00:13:43] about it in 2020. And if you are concerned about it now, if you were legitimately concerned, then you would be taking your cues from the black community. You would be taking your cues from black women and you wouldn't be scolding us. You wouldn't be recommending us. You wouldn't

[00:14:00] be trying to tell us what's best for us when you literally just got here. So the Palestinian cause is enough. Like you don't have to bring other people in, you don't have to try to

[00:14:18] convince us because we know we're well aware and that's like when the supremacy comes in like when you're trying to tell me something is if you know about it better than I do. Like

[00:14:30] hey, Jenna, have you heard about the racial injustice in this country? Wait, this guy cute do you want me to tell you about it? When did it win since when? You know, do you feel like Kamala is connected with Joe in terms of the Palestinian conflict and the

[00:14:58] genocide that's happening right now? Do you feel angry at her for that or do you feel like that was Biden and let's see what she does or I don't know where do you how do you hold that?

[00:15:10] So I, from what I know by like her husband is Jewish and from what I've heard also as I missed. Okay, so that's in her personal life. I don't know. Obviously we know what Biden's policy

[00:15:27] is what he has said, you know whatever and there are some clips floating around of Kamala, speaking at APEC and doing whatever. What I do know right now, right? She has declined to

[00:15:42] preside over Nihu's visit to Congress this week next week and has is signaling right that like her policy and her thoughts on this are different from Joe. What she'll actually do,

[00:15:59] what her actual policies will be remains to be seen. But again, she's in the position she is now because of us and because of our voices and because of how loudly it been. And so I think

[00:16:14] I think what people are kind of upset about is because secretly everyone wants to be able to relax and everyone wants to vote on November 5th and then be done with it and go back to just ignoring

[00:16:28] politics and you know we fixed it. We did it. Yay, and I'll see you in four years right and that's not going to be possible. Like this the work has literally only just begun and we're going to have

[00:16:43] to keep pushing. We're going to have to keep pulling. We're going to have to keep fighting. Like it's not if we want our representative government to actually represent us. Like we've seen how far

[00:16:55] how disconnected they are from us and how they literally do not care what their constituents want and they just do whatever they want. There's like you see the house passing who asked you to

[00:17:06] ban TikTok? Who asked you to do that? Who asked you to put the tank of maimants in these class? Who is requesting nobody? You guys are just out here doing whatever you want and you feel

[00:17:18] free to do it because we've been distracted and we've been lazy and we've been too tired to pay attention now we're paying attention and we can't stop paying attention. And so, comma if she wants to win

[00:17:31] like they're not stupid they're not unaware of what the people want they don't care but they're not unaware of it right? And so they have to know that this is a main sticking point and even if we're

[00:17:45] not our hearts not really in it and you know they're not really sincere about it they at least have to pretend something's going to change or something is different and then it's up to us

[00:17:57] to keep the pressure on to keep our foot on their neck to make sure that they really do make the changes that we want to see. And so it's not there's really no point in kind of holding people

[00:18:11] to their past right now like be aware of it and don't be afraid to remind them of it but like again whatever perfect person you're envisioning whoever your ideal leader is they're not getting

[00:18:25] into the White House this year. And like we don't have time to talk about people's past like what are what are we going to do for the things that are happening right now? How are we going

[00:18:35] to okay you did this in the past what I care about is what are you going to do next? Right and especially like it's it's very is rich coming from all of us right because a little wager

[00:18:48] a year ago at this time if I would have said a pack to you if you would have said it to me literally what are you talking about right? The bottom of it like aren't you upset about what is

[00:19:00] happening in Palestine you know like uh tell me more maybe I don't know right like there's just a lot that we weren't aware of weren't paying attention to didn't know right and for us now to be

[00:19:15] pretending like I've always been here. I've always had held these views and felt this strongly about this right like a year ago we were all asleep but it's horrendous the Kamala was right right is like let let he who's without a pack money that's the first stone

[00:19:37] right let he who has not been asleep right like judge everybody else right now and so yeah it's like we're just not we're just not as gracious as we should be with others

[00:19:52] and with ourselves like we're all trying to figure this out again this is all made up but like it wasn't it wasn't made up frivolously right like the powers of being didn't do this stuff like

[00:20:05] they weren't hoping for the best for all of us right don't you for all this work right any of these documents like man I hope this is gonna go well for the black people I really think

[00:20:15] this is gonna turn out good for them you know I'm really rooting for women I'll tell you what I want you know this is gonna work out in their best interest eventually it's like no they put these

[00:20:26] things in place to keep the wealthy you know land-owning white man in power it's made up but the rules are there for a reason the rules are there for a reason and then it's like

[00:20:37] and we're sniping at each other but like literally the rules the game is against us we did what we were supposed to do in 2016 we showed up black people specifically absolutely even white folks

[00:20:52] right and even white women we were fit enough of them you know not enough of them right but Hillary won the popular boat I know the most people did vote for the right thing

[00:21:06] but we're up against the system that said nope can't have that rules are there for a reason because the rules are there for a reason right and so even now right like I haven't

[00:21:19] like I have to be honest about the privilege that I hold I was born and raised in California I live in New York I'm back in California I've only ever lived in states that go blue no matter who

[00:21:31] right so it is easy for me to be like just vote their birdie guys let's just just do a little protest vote what I know how my state is gonna go like that's easy I have never lived in a swing

[00:21:45] state I don't know what that pressure is like and so I I refuse to have the goal and the temerity to tell somebody in the swings date but they better do or how they better show up

[00:21:59] or how they should be willing to sacrifice themselves and so you know a lot of these people a lot of these Instagram warriors I'm like oh how do you do not live in swing states and so it is very

[00:22:13] easy to have a very strong stance when you know which your state is gonna do when you know how it's gonna work out right and like for me yeah it's it's a privilege for me to be able

[00:22:29] to vote my conscience in the sense that yeah I will not I'm not gonna vote for just a straight up genocide supporter I'm not gonna do that all I have is my conscience and I have the luxury

[00:22:43] and the privilege of being able to go with that but I know it's a luxury and I know it's a privilege do you feel like Kamal is a straight up genocide supporter? I don't know yet okay I don't know because

[00:22:56] like our government is weird right and so these are the cogs in the machine but like how are we how are we judging things because technically we're all genocide supporters I'm going to work

[00:23:10] and I'm collecting a paycheck like if I was really about it right if I'm really tinted those down wouldn't I be striking all the time and wouldn't I be saying no I refuse to work and I refuse

[00:23:22] to accept a paycheck until I know for sure none of my taxes are going to this genocide right like we all could be going harder than we are and we're not so it's just weird that we

[00:23:37] pick on certain people and say you believe they're on thing or you're doing the wrong thing when technically we're all doing the wrong thing and yeah if I have the choice and they said

[00:23:51] right here do you want to taxes to go to Israel no I don't but I don't have that choice and I'm still choosing to make money you know I can not go to Starbucks every again

[00:24:04] like and I go to McDonald's ever again that's my little part that I can do but I'm still supporting genocide I'm still paying for this because again we're all the sounds so like defeated but like

[00:24:19] we're all cogs in the machine at some point we're just bigger or smaller cogs you know like we we're all part of the system yeah yeah and the system is set up to to do that to us

[00:24:31] and like and again that doesn't there's no way to end there's no there is a way to end it a day right but nobody wants that y'all don't really want the united states to just cease to be

[00:24:42] for all this evil to come back on us just in one day and like problems up no more you as a like you don't really want that did we just all my janna's I don't know listeners are you hearing this we're gonna get the government after us

[00:25:07] trees and trees and podcasts and like for me as an artist as a storyteller and then like honestly as as a Christian when I was very evangelical like I remember you know being in high school

[00:25:28] and learning about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the atomic bombs we dropped right wasn't even born but that's my country we did that and my Christian brain was like damn sewing and reaping

[00:25:48] that has to come back like this nation has done a lot of bad bad things and she has to come back at some point and for a long time I thought like oh I feel like black people

[00:26:04] women any marginalized groups we are probably what is holding back the tie because if there is a just and good god surely he would know that we suffered enough right and we didn't do this so

[00:26:21] maybe this nation isn't being punished because we're here and we are because I'd holding back this tie but then capitalism does when it does to us and we get involved and we start buying

[00:26:36] into this thing and we start supporting the wrong stuff and maybe we're not holding it back anymore and so like I can't I love my country but I also just love humanity and love the world

[00:26:56] and a very aware that we've done a lot of bad a lot of people don't like us and I can't be mad about that and so like I'm not really interested in in us just like going on the way we have been

[00:27:11] up to this point like I'm like something something has to give something has to break we know no empire lasts forever and so sometimes in some of these arguments I'm like I don't even

[00:27:23] have the energy to participate in this because I don't even believe this country is that long for the world and I don't know what that means I don't know what that looks like but like we keep

[00:27:35] trying to reform things that just need to be abolished and you know selfishly and because I am an American I'm like well I would love for us to just fall from like number one to number two like let somebody else

[00:27:55] what's up my deal is just move up and we deal with our good up fall harder but yeah second place second place right like we just we're just quietly not number one anymore like that with

[00:28:07] like and you know we work out our issues amongst ourselves yeah we climb our way back to the top we're fine but this probably not gonna happen and so I'm just a big proponent of like men people like

[00:28:25] do your best to so good karma right to love the people around you to become a better person so that hopefully when whatever happens happens but you've you've put enough good out in the

[00:28:40] world that it comes back and it it kind of shields you but also like live your life and enjoy it because life is crazy short anyway and we live in just in insane time and like I think because

[00:28:57] this country was built on so much dehumanization it's really hard for Americans especially white Americans to like recognize the full humanity of a people who don't look like them of others and so like when not when things started happening at Palestine because things have been happening

[00:29:21] but when we became aware of it and after October 7th and I just remember just with some of those first first bombings and I was just like sitting sitting in my room and just like imagining like

[00:29:37] man like there are people those were real people you know NPCs these aren't just characters on a loop who aren't these are people who had hopes and dreams just like mine these people have plans

[00:29:51] things they were gonna do tomorrow things they were gonna do next week and this isn't I think our American exceptionalism like we imagine people still like living in caves and like Huts and like not being as technical up these people they're on the internet guys they have iPhones

[00:30:11] They have the things that we have they're living just like us and just like that it was over yeah and there's so many songs and films and just art and pictures and books and things

[00:30:28] that were in the works that will never be here now because they were just wiped out and that could be any one of us at any moment and so like again I don't really have the time like why are we

[00:30:41] we're arguing over stupid stuff please be enjoying your life like please be creating your art recording your podcast doing your stuff because you know not to be all jeep the little tomorrow promise but it's not and it's not only not prompt like we're not we're not oh that

[00:31:11] and again because we do live in this bloodstained blood thirsty nation we are living on borrowed time and like we should be so thankful and so kind and so loving and so just creative and community

[00:31:30] bound because like these are these are the things that are gonna get us out of this mess and that are gonna carry us through because all of this is falling around falling apart around us

[00:31:42] because it was built bad like there's no reforming it and I think I think we're getting to that place where a lot of people are accepting that truth more and more where it's like no a better

[00:31:55] world is possible but it's not it's not from making a few tweaks to this one or just you know putting putting a new person in charge of the prison it's still prison right it's still a for

[00:32:09] profit prison and the problem is the for profit prison part right not the person in charge the is a clog in the machine again who's making money and like yes they are doing wrong things too

[00:32:25] but also they're making money like we could also look at ourselves and be like but we are making money and supporting a genocide like we are clogs in the machine too right like we said before

[00:32:36] yeah yeah so like I don't know like it's hard it's hard for me sometimes to to engage in these conversations and I'm like like if we were like face to face sometimes with some people I'm

[00:32:50] like I would literally just wander away from this conversation because we're not gonna get anywhere and we're like fighting with each other about who are you gonna vote for? What are you talking about right now? What magic do you think is gonna happen if things go your way

[00:33:08] unobemperfect like we're all gonna still be here in the same place and again still having to fight these same fights is just who which villain are we gonna be fighting against? That's it right

[00:33:24] is just just the new level of the Mario Brothers like which which castle is this? Which what was it today? Do you have to jump on his head or twirl like how do I defeat this one? Right

[00:33:39] right and like you're telling me to twirl because that's how we beat the last one but this is actually a new one and I know we need to jump on this one. Right right but you won't believe me because

[00:33:53] because this one is black. So what well there's two questions I want to ask you one is about how you enjoy life amidst all of this chaos and the other is about what white women can do so which one

[00:34:12] do you want to answer first? If you all do, oh go what white women can do. Okay and this is if you want to share again it is not your job to tell us how to be supportive but if we are listening

[00:34:31] to you and listening to other black women and other black people is there something that you would like to say to us white people in terms of what can we do to be supportive of you? What do you

[00:34:43] need right now especially thinking about the racism and sexism that is about to come your way and we'll all hear it but you will feel it in a way that that we won't and so what do you need

[00:34:58] from us? Like we don't really need there's not much you can do it's lot of things you can not do and you know in that is not be telling us what to do have your opinions feel free but

[00:35:13] you don't know what it's like and you can't know what it's like and you shouldn't have to like trust that whatever is best for black women right whatever whatever we're aiming for it's not going to hurt you. I think white supremacy has set up this

[00:35:38] like what I go with Israel right like every every accusation is a confession right in the things that they're accusing we have to do this because they want to kill us off wait but you are

[00:35:50] killing them all like you're actually doing it but you're saying you're doing it because that's what you think their intent is and you think that's what their intent is because that's what your

[00:36:01] intent is and I think a lot of white people fear like not being in power because they know what they've done with power and they can't imagine anybody else not doing that right and so

[00:36:16] a lot of white people are afraid maybe rightfully so again sewing and reaping there's a lot of fear of retribution and like there's all again there's somebody for everything so yeah there are marginalized folks who would love to get rid of all white people most people are not

[00:36:38] feeling that way like most people we literally just want to live and we just want to enjoy our lives and like so much of what white people are angry about or feel slighted by or like accused

[00:36:51] us of having or think that we get you know oh black people you get to go to college for free and you wear please show me tell me where it is how do I get that are you guys are taking from the system

[00:37:03] and blah blah no affirmative action white women were the greatest recipients and benefactors of that right we don't have health insurance health insurance is tied to a job right it's not just nationwide thing because they don't want black people to have it like there's so much stuff

[00:37:22] so many ways that we're all suffering because the system goes out of its way like literally is spitting that those on its own face right just just to get at us and it's like if you guys

[00:37:34] would just listen and would just let us leave we want health insurance right not just for us for everyone we want the education system to be better not just for us for everyone

[00:37:48] if black maternal health gets better how is that gonna make things worse for you right like if we get more like how does that make it doesn't make things worse for you it makes things better

[00:38:00] and so it's like start pushing the government to be nice to us like because police third yeah they're killing us they're killing you guys too right like they're building cops

[00:38:13] cities is mostly for us but you're gonna get caught up in that too and so it's like if you're not fighting for our rights because you're afraid that our rights are somehow gonna take away from yours

[00:38:26] when the truth is the rising tide lives all boats and in this case it things get better for us materially they're gonna get better for everyone because it's kind of just country has never put us

[00:38:40] first there's never been an instance when they've been like your black people have this right not freeing one else even June teen right like how is everybody getting the day off so you get to

[00:38:53] celebrate your ancestors too interesting okay okay but even like that like guys we all got a day off do you see that this this is how everything will work so like do that internal work and kind of like

[00:39:11] just be honest like I think the best thing why people can do for black people for everyone including themselves it's like sit down get quiet and be honest like what are you afraid of

[00:39:26] what do you think black people are trying to do what is it that you think that we want and where did you get that idea from because you probably haven't talked to a black person

[00:39:39] and it's like doing doing that work and being like okay what am I afraid of because like even things with like reparations and like people get all of in arms about that but it's like it's not

[00:39:50] I'm not coming to your house Maggie and being like give me $500 today you don't owe me that money no individual person owes anyone anything we're asking the government why would you not want

[00:40:07] the government to pay its debts especially Republican who hate debt yeah hey your debts just pay and it's like why why would you not want that what do you think that's taking from you I don't

[00:40:25] want to pay my taxes for it but you'll pay it for your senator to make way more money than you and have health care and not raise your minimum wage like that's fine but the idea of

[00:40:44] that money going to actual people who are then gonna turn around and spend it at your business we're then going to turn around and buy property from you who are the like it's gonna go right

[00:40:58] back into our economy but like where is that anger coming from when you're just like I do not want these people to have it I don't think they deserve it yeah okay but where did that come from

[00:41:11] look looking at mirror yeah you know yeah so just just sit sit with yourselves and also talk amongst yourselves like if you if you are tempted and you are upset about what black people are doing

[00:41:27] and too many of them ah they're just gonna vote for Kamala just because she's black if that's really upsetting you then make it your business for every black person that you know and you know

[00:41:39] there about to throw their vote away there's no vote for Kamala well then now it is your job to be like I gotta go get four of my white friends to vote third party because that's the thing that I think is

[00:41:50] right so these are the people that I'm responsible for and I gotta I gotta go cover these dumb domes over here so let me get my people on board thank you don't need to be worrying about

[00:42:02] anybody else in any other community unless every single person that you know in your community in your family is doing the right thing whatever that is to you don't come over here yelling at me

[00:42:18] if you haven't converted your maga uncle you got plenty of work to do over there you shouldn't even have time to be thinking about what I'm making or may not be doing for what the black

[00:42:31] community may or may not be doing because the truth is we don't have the power you're pretending that we have if every single one of us did the right thing and every single one of y'all don't

[00:42:45] it doesn't matter this is 2016 we did the right thing we showed up we did the thing and we still got Trump because too many of y'all did not get your uncles in your aunties

[00:42:58] and line so get them and then if you have time and the energy you convert every maga person out there yeah then and only then then and only then you can come over here and talk to the I don't know three percent of us who are insane

[00:43:28] you know even then it's just no stay out of it it's just I know this is hypothetical like it's no you're never gonna convert all the maga people but I just have to say even then stay out of it

[00:43:39] to my white my white people stay out of it in your real that you posted today you said white women you are made for such a time as this and so yeah to white women out there from Janice

[00:43:56] let's go work let's go do the work on on our side of things like we don't need to be telling black people what to do how to think we need to go fix our own crew because there's a lot of

[00:44:09] insanity on our side and I don't want to say I shouldn't say insanity but um but it is it is insane there's a lot of insanity in our maga supporting uncles so

[00:44:23] so we got work to do and like and it's not and not for nothing right again we're don't like we're in this hyper individualistic society and so we all have been taught to believe that you know

[00:44:36] how we think and what we feel and what we believe this just me right and I and my own person nobody told me to think this I just think this just naturally and that's how I know it's right

[00:44:46] right because everybody knows this and it's like no we have been fed so much propaganda that we are not even aware of and so like also have grace with yourself and like realizing like it's okay

[00:45:02] to be wrong and to not know stuff and to have wrong thinking patterns and to like to have this be a struggle and like we're not with commoner being nominated like again it's like oh when it's

[00:45:17] when but it's also a weight and it's also like I don't know the white people have no can even understand what it's like to like fear for somebody's life just because of what they look like

[00:45:31] and to not even be able to like fully still the joy of like dang one of us really got up there right then again for a better immerse is not great in this issues with all of this but man

[00:45:44] one of us got up there like she gets nominated and there's this moment of like oh and then it's this immediate dread of they are going to be so awful to her her life is definitely in danger

[00:45:58] but now all black women are about to feel this tide of and be reminded of how much this country hates us and how much white men especially and again a lot of it is just like so ingrained

[00:46:20] and people don't even know why they feel the way that they feel but like as things get worse and I capitalism is just bearing down on all of us white men just get really really embedded

[00:46:33] and really feel some type of way about people who they don't know that they think they're better than right there are a lot of people like I don't have a racist bone in my body but there's just

[00:46:45] something about it right and there's just something about it it's just there's something that just feels wrong about a black person a black woman being more successful and more powerful than I

[00:47:01] never problem with black women but when I look at her no that's not it that's not it and again right I don't have a folks who it's got to be spiritual right it's got to be

[00:47:14] I'm just this is just I just it's just right and I just know it is because I look in I don't have a racist bone on my body but something is telling me this this this isn't right and that's

[00:47:28] again we're like we've all been fed so much propaganda that like they probably truly believe that they don't have a racist bone in their body they they are not racist and they they really don't know where these ideas come from yeah and that's that's where then I think

[00:47:47] we as as white people who who do have some understanding and I think we all have internalized racism and sexism and homophobia and all the things that we continually will find and

[00:48:00] we'll need to work through so I'm not saying that like any one of us is perfect in this but but when we can see where these ideas come from it is our job to call out our other white folks

[00:48:13] that we know and tell them this is where it comes from look at this look at the system that's our yeah yeah and like and you have to be you guys you guys have to do like double time

[00:48:26] because black we're not lying about who we're voting for. Thike if I say I'm going third party you can be sure I'm going third party if I'm voting for Kamala you can be sure I'm voting for Kamala

[00:48:39] if I say I'm voting for Trump you can be sure I'm voting for Trump like we don't have any reason to lie but like part of the reason Hillary lost is because white folks white women

[00:48:51] were lying and they're like yeah no girl power off wait but then look my husband says but my pastor said but whoever said right and so yeah y'all got to do double work

[00:49:09] because you can't get white people to the point where there just be like all right just to shut you up I know what the answer should be here right but then they get in there and that

[00:49:19] programming kicks in and they're like I know this is what they want me to do but there's just something about her she says angry a little pretentious I don't just I get a vibe I just get a vibe

[00:49:35] and I don't know and our women allowed to preach can a woman be president? I don't know she's both too strong and not strong enough at the same time so there's a lot of internal

[00:49:51] shit a lot of work you guys have to do over these next more months and then that's why I'm like you there's no way there's no way you're gonna have time to come over here and again

[00:50:02] worry about the 3% of us who are in say you don't have time and if if you do it's not us we're the where the most visibly not white right so we're the ones people automatically look at

[00:50:19] but it's like no there are a lot of marginalized groups in this country and when white people are feeling that fear right about becoming the minority it's not us there is a bunch of brown

[00:50:34] folks go talk to them where are you always coming at us? literally 90% of black men vote blue consistently and it's something like 97 98% of black women we're on task all the time

[00:50:55] it's not us you need to worry about this crew right here it's the white women and the white men but but like we don't we don't really we don't have high hopes for the white men

[00:51:08] yeah I kind of gave up on them a long time ago so it's not that I am not like holding them a kind of all for that but also like okay fine then you yes you benefit from this patriarchal

[00:51:20] world of course you're gonna vote that way right women let's get it together yeah white women I don't need to tell you but yeah and like and I think I guess I win Trump got shot at

[00:51:37] all right like it just it is broke something for me because like this is this is so stupid this is so stupid I was like I don't think I don't this is not gonna do with whatever they think

[00:51:50] it's gonna do like and I think you know conspiracy theory me my Trump is a useful idiot Donald Trump is not Donald Trump has never had a good idea he's never had an idea in his life right

[00:52:06] like he got into this position and the powers that be the actual people who are making policies and have plans and you know want to see America a certain way they're like oh okay this guy can be

[00:52:20] he is useful but I think it's gotten to the point where like his followers are clearly insane and I think a lot of people I think you know we're very black and white we've made these binaries

[00:52:35] and so we're like oh Republicans bad you know like no there are people who are legitimately conservative who are not hateful who are not racist they've given way too much in the way to the folks

[00:52:48] who are and have been seduced I think by by that power and that illusion of security in like keeping their place and whatever but I think there also a lot of them just straight up embarrassed

[00:53:00] at this point and don't want to be associated with that and so I think with Trump I think they're like tired of them and like whoever whoever the puppet masters over all of this are

[00:53:13] they don't really need him anymore and so I think I think got a little scary for them because they're like man wait we don't actually want a dictator like we don't actually want

[00:53:26] especially not this guy right so I don't know we've we've we've we've done a lot right we've had a good run we've got those justices in there we've put a lot of these pillars in place

[00:53:38] project 2025 yes it's scary but let's be real a lot of it is already happening is already in progress and they didn't need him in the office to do that because they've got they bought enough

[00:53:50] senators and other people and they still own those people right and so it's like oh they don't really need this guy so yeah the election is gonna happen but like I'm not as I'm not as hopeless

[00:54:05] as I was like two weeks ago and just kind of resigning myself to the fact that like yeah this jerk is probably gonna get back in mm-hmm yeah I felt when I saw that Kamala was

[00:54:19] probably gonna be the nominee I turned to my husband and I said well I'm excited to vote again like I'm excited for voting like I don't know what will happen but but I don't feel like hopeless

[00:54:32] that it's Joe anymore you know yeah yeah and I'm like because if nothing else again look what we made them do yeah they were not this this was not on their radar this was not the plan right they

[00:54:46] were like no this the idiot in the corpse these are your choices these these are what we like right this is just how we do it this is how we do it this is it like what could be more

[00:55:00] American than a elderly white man with money babe yeah that's it this is the American dream don't you feel like we've lived up to the dream the hype this is it this is what I want to be

[00:55:16] this is this is what you aspire to have and as you can get on earth two white men running for office it's not their one of which you can actually literally physically run but like it's fine

[00:55:31] it's fine and this is it this is all you get shut up about it shut up and they're like they will not be quiet they won't shut up we're gonna have to do something different

[00:55:45] and they did and they could not be more different yeah can we take a minute and celebrate the fact that there is a black woman a api woman of color who is running for president

[00:56:00] like is going to be on the ticket yeah that's fucking cool that's fucking amazing and like black women black people everywhere good job like great work you are all part of

[00:56:13] that you have all helped her get there and I realized that like no I'm not even gonna put a caveat on it of like I know she's not perfect I know maybe she wouldn't be a first choice

[00:56:23] I'm not even gonna put that on there I'm just gonna say where is a black woman who is going to be on the ticket and that is a huge step and something so exciting and wonderful and also like a

[00:56:36] sign of desperate times right like there is the whole reality of like the glass cliff right and anytime America gets in trouble like this is it is a great a great thing when is a win

[00:56:52] and a win is a wait because now they also get to blame a black woman right and also get to say well look at that if you didn't fix everything well look at that you still got whatever's about to happen

[00:57:08] to the Americans still happen to America and now we get to blame it all black women having a fabulous an office like Trump says that about stuff now and it's like but you you guys love to

[00:57:20] pretend like we have no history right every four years is a brand new experience not connected in any way to what came before it like yeah nothing to do with this like when Biden put

[00:57:33] you tweeted like if I'm elected I will I don't even remember what it was that he said he was going to do and you were like dude do you know what job he have now? Right but every time and it's like

[00:57:45] it's nothing but these fears right and all these false promises like don't tell me you're I'm gonna I'm gonna reinstate robbers this way. Yes that's what it was yes I'm gonna reinstate

[00:57:56] rope yeah and you're like uh but you have that job right now if you can then just do it now do it now but you guys you still think we're stupid because what you're not saying is if I win and I get all

[00:58:12] the senators and we win the house representatives then I will do this thing it's not about you man and we know that now so like but you're tweeting like we're still asleep and we're not

[00:58:27] we woke up and we called for him to get out and he got out yeah yeah so it's like come on guys come on come on and yeah you guys know that shit is bad we're in a bad state

[00:58:46] and so yeah let's let's try out the black woman let's give her a shot because we literally have nothing to lose at this point things maybe they'll get better and then we could just take credit

[00:58:58] and say yay we did it and if they get worse don't you get to say see we told you black woman couldn't we we told you a woman couldn't be president and now let's return to our regular

[00:59:10] little programming and it'll probably be Biden and Trump again with a little more from all the time okay Janice how do you stay sane how do you enjoy life in this whack-a-do-do timeline

[00:59:41] and well that'll be a perfect way to end something something happy before we go how do you like you do so many cool creative things Janice runs this this class thing that I don't

[00:59:55] really know a lot about because it is way above and beyond my creative abilities but I do know that when she posts about it it makes me so happy so now you have to tell what that is because now

[01:00:06] I've given up not given a teaser and I can't give any information so what is this class that you were oh my god I don't even know what you're talking about I don't know shit I did it again oh my Maggie that's the other black girl

[01:00:33] now that is man that is a big part of what is currently keeping me sane and like keeping me like oh this is what life is about so this workshop called second stories and it is my attempt to

[01:00:48] reclaim some of creativity from capitalism like I think I think community and capitalism are at odds always and that capitalism has consumed so much of creativity and like as a writer as someone who

[01:01:06] had maybe still does but just in a different way like had aspirations and like writing for TV someday and just like getting really tired of that process and just kind of stepping outside of

[01:01:20] it and be like wait again this is all made up and it is insane that creative people are at the winds and at the mercy of so many non creative people right and executives and usually like

[01:01:34] white men who are like yes no I like that I don't like that and like they tend to like things that already exist and that like remind them of them right and so it's just really difficult for

[01:01:49] creative people of color creative women creative queer is like just creative people who are not straight white men to get in and although we have been told that is the American dream it actually

[01:02:01] kind of is shit believe it or not right right but in trying to play along right and get into these so many of us have learned how to become cogs and these different machines that we want to be a part

[01:02:16] of but the intention usually being okay I'll sacrifice these bits of myself and I'll learn how to play the game and do all of this and then someday when I get into a position of power I'll

[01:02:27] be the change that I want to see but usually by the time you get into the position where you do have power you've become the thing right you're corrupted and now now you're a boomer and it worked for

[01:02:38] installation work for you right and so kind of stepping back from that it'd be like okay well what if we just what if I just start a writer's room of my own what if we just write something for ourselves

[01:02:56] we do it ourselves and because like with all the streaming networks and all the different things so there's so many more options and also like we're somewhere so much more fractured right like there is no show that everybody watches on Sunday night anymore right and I was watching

[01:03:18] the Netflix documentary about the TikTok dancing kids dancing with the devil I think and I was watching that I was like I had never heard of any of these people right and these dancers

[01:03:33] a lot of them have one million two million followers you know whatever but it's like man like they have these huge audiences and I've never heard of them and there are so many

[01:03:46] things, so many avenues that like we always think oh to be successful I've got to be a superstar and everybody has to know about me that's like but what if we just lean into I don't need to have

[01:03:58] a million followers I don't need to have two million people watch this if we just make our little lane and we only have a hundred five hundred five thousand ten thousand people but they love

[01:04:11] this thing and they're you know willing to support it that's more than enough so if we just create this little show of this little web series we can create our own little audience not'll be enough

[01:04:26] and we get to practice our writing skills we get to create some entertainment we get to do the thing without permission for anyone else and so my brief my idea for like this first first session

[01:04:41] all right what if we create kind of a mockumentary and it's the real world but it's the real world Supreme Court and so we're gonna create this alternate timeline where like Supreme Court just

[01:04:55] this is our picked like jury duty and so let's just every day Americans just randomly chosen to sit on the highest court in the land and if we just yeah make this show based on this little

[01:05:10] premise and so we've been working on that and just like having a great time and then I think it was last week we're like there's just this random headline oh Joe Biden is about to you know

[01:05:21] make some changes to the Supreme Court and so it was just like one of those moments of just like magic where you're like oh again this is all made up and we can tell better stories

[01:05:35] and we can be putting energy out there that does change the world is the Supreme Court actually gonna become like jury duty with just everyday citizens no but can we create something that makes

[01:05:50] people stop and think and be like oh wait there are other ways to do this and why does it run this way why does it run this way and yeah who made this up and why am I just going along with this

[01:06:05] and where else in my life can I just decide to do something different to try it another way to create another lane for myself because ultimately I think we're all trying to escape from

[01:06:18] capitalism and like we keep waiting for capitalism to like make that easy for it right to give us permission we're just capitalism gonna give us a way out we're just the exit ramp

[01:06:32] where's the exit right and so we've been taught that the exit is to win it right to have the most money to be at the top and you know whatever and I was like no the prices too high because

[01:06:46] there's a reason most of the people who have the capital are not great people and are not doing a lot of great things so it's like that that can't be the answer I think the answer is community

[01:06:59] and so I'm doing whatever I can to build creative communities and it's going really well can we watch the like finished product when you're when it's done will it be available for for the the less creative folk like me the third chance fuel

[01:07:20] so I hope so but also part of my thought with this is like we've been taught to kind of pedestal certain types of entertainment right and like and I I get sad when I think about how

[01:07:38] many people have written scripts have written whether it's films or web series or pilot scripts or whatever and because they don't get chosen by capitalism to be made people feel like they failed

[01:07:53] or like like that work doesn't count and like my thing is like we are all storytellers and TV and movies are like the ultimate medium we think but like everything starts with a story

[01:08:10] and for most of human history stories were just being told right and then we started writing them down and so then we started dishonoring just the telling of the story so now it doesn't count

[01:08:23] unless you write it down so then we started writing it down and they were like well now that doesn't count unless you film it right and so I would love I hope that we do get to the part where we can

[01:08:35] like and that'll be kind of the next session and we'll figure out how to how to workshop that but at the very least I'm like no we're gonna do this we're gonna write it down and if nothing

[01:08:44] else comes from it then we're gonna put it out as a book and be like yeah we're going back to storytelling like we used to just read stories and now who said we can't just have a book of scripts

[01:08:59] who said that's not a valid form of storytelling so if we can't nothing we can I hope we will get to the point where we can't film it but if we don't we still wrote this thing it still exists

[01:09:13] we're still gonna put it down on paper and put it out into the world so yeah I love that it will be out there somehow so amazing greatest act of resistance and on so many levels it's

[01:09:26] so so cool and I hope that people see you now why at the beginning I said the Janice is one of the most creative people that I have ever met so there you go. desperate time desperate measures

[01:09:40] I mean I told you know I guess is what I'm saying but we've white women she's the shit believe white women no that is not the take of the evidence. Well Janice thank you so much for

[01:10:01] being here this was such a delight and I really really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts to do the emotional labor of sharing all of this with with my audience I

[01:10:12] cannot thank you enough so to my listeners please go follow Janice please oh I did have one more question for you are there any other people on Instagram that you would recommend I was going to say

[01:10:22] go follow Janice and who else would you recommend maybe that my listeners follow. I know there are but I'm terrible how about this you can tell me some later you can send them

[01:10:39] to me on Instagram and I'll put them in the show notes so I'll link some other some other good content creators and and important voices in the space in the show notes so people can imagine I'm like there are none. It's actually just it's actually just Janice.

[01:10:53] It's only me it's a really hard job um I'm really tired a lot of the time but when we talked about the weight Janice was carrying we weren't joking. It's me because let's we all know God doesn't call the qualified he qualifies the call and he only

[01:11:11] qualifies me so. Oh Janice what a delight. So glad to be here thank you for having me. Thank you so much for doing this and super short notice too so thanks.

[01:11:25] Right the world's on fire we got it we got a little quick because we don't have time you know we don't have and like I'm gonna try to release this tomorrow and like by the time I really said

[01:11:33] who knows what else will happen honestly. We're like forget all that little dragon new recording. I'm gonna drop down Nikki Haley of Zann now it's woman versus woman we're definitely gonna have a woman president. We could judge that based on fashion like who dresses better maybe

[01:11:59] and somehow white men and white women still are gonna find a way to mess it up we're like halfway you'll sign did when. What? Oh my god okay all right I'm gonna stop recording before

[01:12:18] we keep going forever Janice I love you thank you for being in this phase and thank you for being in this. Thanks for listening to another episode of Hello Deconstructionists if you enjoyed

[01:12:30] this episode or any others please like follow or subscribe to the podcast and if you feel like it leave us a review so other people know what this show is all about if you have any questions

[01:12:39] comments for parts of your own experience you'd like to share on the podcast you can email me at hello.deconsts at jmail.com and as always you can find me over on Instagram at hello underscore deconstructionists we're together we are building community post evangelicalism

[01:12:55] huge thank you to Amy Azara for writing the theme song for this podcast and when this sweet little box inevitably gets stuck in your head I hope it reminds you of this wonderful community that's here

[01:13:05] with you thanks to all our guests for sharing these parts of their stories with us and of course to you for listening see you next time.